anecorbie on Aug 21, 2015 wrote:

I'm beginning to wonder if Black Fog is really the problem it is; most of the time I'm facing opponents who have no idea how to fight a PVP match. Let me give two examples of fighters who made the same mistake:
Example #1 Witchdoctor first move he uses Bonnie Anne's Scatter Shot to remove the obstacles in the center of the board. ( no one is within the area affected. ), He had no melee companion. he was easy to beat because he wasted his opportunities.
Example # 2 Musketeer first move - does the same thing as that WD, also has no melee companions
These two examples happened at the Warrior and Gladiator level in ranked PVP.
I imagine that their conversation with a friend went something like this:
Friend, "How did your match go?"
WD & MK: "I lost, she was a swashbuckler."
Friend, "Did she use fog?"
WD & MK : "Yeah."
Friend, "Fog is OP."
So if these encounters are happening to me at the mid levels in a Ranked PVP, I wonder what's going on at the higher levels.
I'm not saying that the ones posting here aren't competent, but perhaps aren't taking the opportunities to stop a buckler in their tracks
Example #3 Witchdoctor first move uses Widow's Touch. I knew at once that here was an opponent who understood buckler's strengths and was determined to stop it. He won because he used his powers and gear effectively.

DeathWiz101378 on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:

No fort? I was considering dumping mine because hide is the ultimate defense. Usually i don't even use fort in matches

Myhomie541 on Aug 25, 2015 wrote:

Purge magic removing hidden would only benefit other classes such as range of privyteers which already can spam fortress and witch can already spam summons not to mention filling half the board In less Then 5 rounds besides there is already scent update that takes care of that no need to make another thing remove it scent is already good enough

luis

Ratbeard on Aug 25, 2015 wrote:

If implemented, the idea would be that using Purge would remove you from hiding (like making an attack); not that just anyone could use Purge to pop you out of hiding.

Myhomie541 on Aug 26, 2015 wrote:

I wouldn't mind that since u counter the other team as well but it would still unbalance the power of removing hides since there is already scent

Eric Stormbringer on Aug 28, 2015 wrote:

I disagree with the idea that using Purge while hidden should remove the hide for a number of reasons:

First off swashbucklers are already limited enough as is. Their hide resolves on the end of their round rather than the opponent's(something applicable to no other buff),Their is a pet power that acts as 100% neutralization of all copies of hide(something applicable to no other power), hide is specifically countered by several rank 3 epics(something applicable to no other power), the barricade strategy can almost completely neutralize black fog and various other counters are available.

Secondly-Purge is extremely counterable simply by moving. Purge only affects a 3x3 area and any class can move their pirate and companions out of that radii in one round.

Thirdly- Purge costs a round to cast so by simply moving one has already countered any number of hidden rounds. The fact that purge costs a round to cast also means that this is a round where the swashbuckler pirate is not doing any damage. It is also a round where he put himself in a vulnerable position for an entire round. As an extremely fragile class-the hide is the only protection from a self induced purge and without it the swashbuckler would surely die the very next round.

With all these counters available along with purge being fairly avoidable I don not believe that it should remove hidden when cast.

Eric Stormbringer on Aug 31, 2015 wrote:

"That's the point of purge; you render everyone vulnerable but you get to hit first with your companions. You're not vulnerable if you use purge while you're hidden right now because no one can hit you except with AoE."
-Unless of course you made smart movement choices and forced the swash to use purge the round hidden resolves.

"If you use a raise barricade strategy, you can't move, and the barricade does not block purge magic."
-If you use a raise barricade strategy you pretty much already negated fog(a bucklers only team buff). Seems fair for the buckler to be able to negate your team buffs.

"Bucklers can easily get over 160 dodge even without elusive 3. Also, in theory, the turn you purge, your companions should be able to take out an enemy companion of your choice. Some games, I even manage to lose two companions in one turn to black fog. Knowing this, bucklers can take out the companion that would be most dangerous to their character and use the buckler's high dodge to prevent instant death. Musketeers are the only class that will still be able to consistently hit but they won't critical against the buckler because of his/her high agility."
-A bucklers high dodge means nothing against the musketeer class or any class with a turn the tide 2 or pirate 2 companion. Besides the pirate hitting along with 2 companions is dealing enough damage to defeat the swash completely. I know this because I have defeated swashes this very same way on my bucc.

"Right now, the purge hidden combo completely destroys buccaneers and privateers because they rely heavily on buffs/shields. Most people do not have/use a scent pet. If you think swashbucklers are limited, you could try using different gear to vary things up."
-Right now privvys are being devastated by every class more so buccaneers than swashbucklers. In terms of power dynamics I rate buccaneers a tier above swashbucklers. If you don't have or use a scent pet get one. The mechanics are there for you to utilize.

Eric Stormbringer on Sep 1, 2015 wrote:

"Smart movement choices? So I'm supposed to run around for four turns? Hide in a corner? If I'm moving every turn you don't have to purge because I won't have any buffs. I can't buff and move in the same turn."
-That's the thing-you don't have to move for 4 rounds. Unless the swash hid within 3 squares of you he will have to spend several turns approaching you along with an additional round casting purge. If you let a swash approach you within 3 squares unopposed without being hidden that's your fault. If a swash starts to approach while hidden then this is when going hidden yourself and spreading your companions would be a good idea. Remember purge has only a 3x3 AoE.

"If I use a raise barricade, you can still purge to your hearts content because your companions block the way for me to get out. Even if it removes hidden, nobody will be attacking you."
-That depends entirely on how you raise the barricade and also who you choose at your point of entry. Many a times when my opponent raises a barricade they utilize themselves hidden or a veng 3 companion killing at least one of my attackers the round I myself attack. Why people expect a consequence free negation of a key class power is beyond me.

"I already said dodge is ineffective against musketeers. However, they won't critical on you often and if you use all melee companions fog is most effective against musketeers."
-No argument here but that really doesn't add anything to your arguments.

"I'm not entirely sure pirate works in pvp. If it does, there's no indication of that during gameplay. Things like turn the tide and elusive flash on the screen but pirate doesn't. As for turn the tide two, espirit cancels it out. With riposte three, one block usually means three blocks."
-I can tell you from experience that a turn the tide pete has full health-0 my swashbuckler before with elusive 3 so something works. Espirit counters espirit and you still receive the turn the tide benefit.