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Improve Minion AI and Spawn Positions

AuthorMessage
Captain
Oct 26, 2012
524
Minions are wonderful extra units that can soak up hits and distract the enemy. I would like to note that for this thread that all my observations come from Kane's dungeon. Unfortunately I have 2 problems with Minions:

1.) Level 75 or 70 death Minions are not very smart and not very strong. Aquila Minions like orthrus and medusa do far better damage and generally have far better intelligence when it comes to attacking enemies. Luv 75 death Minions do far worse with respect to this. I am getting sick of seeing skeleton archers shooting rooke, I mean what are they thinking? Shooting rooke? And then on the other hand we have excellent Aquila Minions. Orthrus does 400 to 1000 damage a turn, medusa is average but she does hit and attack enemies at the right time, and the Minotaur is not the best but his speed buff is wonderful when activated. Level 70 or 75 Minions are very very bad compared to thier lower level 65 counterparts.

2.) Minion Spawning positions are extremely poor at times. Often the Minion spawn where my pirates where meant to be. Let me explain. Let's say in my turn I decide to move to a tile, let's say tile A, and decide to assassin strike some enemy unit in a tile adjacent to tile A. My friend decides to use a Minion doubloon. At the start of the turn the Minion decides to spawn in Tile A, rendering my pirate unable to move since the desired tile is now occupied by skeletal Minion. Do I make sense guys? This is kinda hard to explain. Anyway my idea of resolving this conundrum is to make Minions doubloons spawn at the END of the enemy round instead of the BEGINNING of the pirates round, making pirates be able to complete their desired actions without Minions spawning in the desired places. In other words like how pets spawn sometimes at the end of a round, so to should Minions.

Any feedback or extra ideas to resolve this issue would be nice. Fair sailing! And once again to everyone who is struggling to get a drop, I hope that your desired item would find its way nicely into your bag pack.
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Golden Guardian on Jan 30, 2017 wrote:
Minions are wonderful extra units that can soak up hits and distract the enemy. I would like to note that for this thread that all my observations come from Kane's dungeon. Unfortunately I have 2 problems with Minions:

1.) Level 75 or 70 death Minions are not very smart and not very strong. Aquila Minions like orthrus and medusa do far better damage and generally have far better intelligence when it comes to attacking enemies. Luv 75 death Minions do far worse with respect to this. I am getting sick of seeing skeleton archers shooting rooke, I mean what are they thinking? Shooting rooke? And then on the other hand we have excellent Aquila Minions. Orthrus does 400 to 1000 damage a turn, medusa is average but she does hit and attack enemies at the right time, and the Minotaur is not the best but his speed buff is wonderful when activated. Level 70 or 75 Minions are very very bad compared to thier lower level 65 counterparts.

2.) Minion Spawning positions are extremely poor at times. Often the Minion spawn where my pirates where meant to be. Let me explain. Let's say in my turn I decide to move to a tile, let's say tile A, and decide to assassin strike some enemy unit in a tile adjacent to tile A. My friend decides to use a Minion doubloon. At the start of the turn the Minion decides to spawn in Tile A, rendering my pirate unable to move since the desired tile is now occupied by skeletal Minion. Do I make sense guys? This is kinda hard to explain. Anyway my idea of resolving this conundrum is to make Minions doubloons spawn at the END of the enemy round instead of the BEGINNING of the pirates round, making pirates be able to complete their desired actions without Minions spawning in the desired places. In other words like how pets spawn sometimes at the end of a round, so to should Minions.

Any feedback or extra ideas to resolve this issue would be nice. Fair sailing! And once again to everyone who is struggling to get a drop, I hope that your desired item would find its way nicely into your bag pack.
So you want KI to target this one doubloon so it shows up in the last turn? What about the other doubloon effects? Don't you think asking this may be beyond the capabilities of KI?
And what about your summons? if you go before me your summons may take up the tiles that I or my companions need to complete our attacks. ( This has happened to me so many times I've come to expect it. ) So maybe your summons should wait on everyone's actions in the battle.
And what about pets? Many times a pet will take up a tile I need. Should everything then wait on everyone's actions in battle? That would completely mess up order of battle, learn to deal with it as it happens and know that some things will be beyond your control.
Captain
Oct 26, 2012
524
anecorbie on Jan 30, 2017 wrote:
So you want KI to target this one doubloon so it shows up in the last turn? What about the other doubloon effects? Don't you think asking this may be beyond the capabilities of KI?
And what about your summons? if you go before me your summons may take up the tiles that I or my companions need to complete our attacks. ( This has happened to me so many times I've come to expect it. ) So maybe your summons should wait on everyone's actions in the battle.
And what about pets? Many times a pet will take up a tile I need. Should everything then wait on everyone's actions in battle? That would completely mess up order of battle, learn to deal with it as it happens and know that some things will be beyond your control.
The thing about pets is that they spawn after the fights, the same should happen for Minions. It's no fun trying to tactically run away from Kane when he is close only to be unable to because a Minion randomly spawned on a desired tile, rendering my companions unable to move, and resulting in Kane unleashing his fury and a couple of companions on Bed rest. In regards to other Minions (like scorpions from moo Manchu nefarious staff) PLAYERS decide where they spawn the scorpions and everyone knows where they are and cannot move on that tile because it's un-clickable according to game mechanics, unless of course you move there first or an other scenario happens. You yourself said this. What you are saying is very similar to this blood flame analogy. Keep in mind this is during the players turn. A certain player moves a companion to a tile. He does all his companion clicking and positioning way before me. Mean while I place my flames in a spot much longer after he does his moves, and his companions occupy place of my flames. It's fair. Conversely in another round i place my flames really fast even before he does click any companions, resulting in his companions not being able to click on the tile where flames are since my flames are there because I clicked on those select tiles FIRST. It's a matter of who clicks first. This is essentially what I believe you are saying.

My point is entirely different. I click on a companion and send them to tile A and press done. My moves are complete. After this a doubloon minion from a doubloon spawns on tile A in the doubloon rounds. My companions do NOTHING. They don't move to tile A. Kane comes close and kills them. What am I supposed to do? Deal with it? No.

If minions spawned the same way pets do, the battle order would not be messed up. In a sense their spawn timing would be the exact same as pets. And whilst pets may spawn in an important place you are still in control of what you do the next turn. I want the same for Minions.
Captain
Oct 26, 2012
524
anecorbie on Jan 30, 2017 wrote:
So you want KI to target this one doubloon so it shows up in the last turn? What about the other doubloon effects? Don't you think asking this may be beyond the capabilities of KI?
And what about your summons? if you go before me your summons may take up the tiles that I or my companions need to complete our attacks. ( This has happened to me so many times I've come to expect it. ) So maybe your summons should wait on everyone's actions in the battle.
And what about pets? Many times a pet will take up a tile I need. Should everything then wait on everyone's actions in battle? That would completely mess up order of battle, learn to deal with it as it happens and know that some things will be beyond your control.
Contininuing on from my previous reply, I feel like I did not use enough words to describe what I mean. Here is the problem.

We must first understand the doubloon Minion. This Minion should not be confused from Minions spawned from pirate gear like scorpions from nefarious staff.The doubloon Minion is a friendly ally that can be used in battle against enemies. The doubloon Minion functions a lot like pets; they are uncontrollable and think for themselves, spawn on random tiles and battle in their own sequence- this sequence being after the pirates go and the enemies go. The most unique difference between doubloon Minions and pets is the spawning timing. These doubloon Minions spawn BEFORE pirates attack, unlike pets who spawn AFTER pirates attack. Here is the problem. Listen closely to following scenario:

1.) A certain pirate decides to move his companion to a tile, let's say Tile A. In this round NO Minion doubloons where used. The companion successfully moves to Tile A. The evil Kane who never ever ever drops his mask has his go and comes extremely close to Tile A.
2.)The pirate now decides to move his companion to Tile B, a certain safe distance away Kane. A Minion doubloon however is now used. Even before the companion has the turn to move, the Minion doubloon spawns a Minion on tile B according to the mechanics of doubloons being used before battle even begins.
3.)Since tile B is now occupied, the companion who was originally supposed to move to tile B cannot, and now is unable to move until the next turn since tile B is occupied by the Minion. The companion is still stuck in Tile A. 4.)Kane comes close to Tile A and kills companion.

Sorry, I am not going to simply deal with this. Hopefully by now I should make sense to everyone, and if not I will make a visual guide on central. This is actually a massive gameplay problem come to think of it and should be addressed ASAP.
Dread Pirate
May 27, 2009
2131
I haven't had this happen often enough to even notice it as a problem...

Admiral
Jun 02, 2013
1472
If it's possible, how about by using doubloons once you have placed all your troops in certain tiles, the summon cannot spawn on those tiles
Captain
Oct 26, 2012
524
@W.Dream
Yeah it does not happen that much at all but it does happen. After roughly 200 runs of Kane I have seen over 1000 Minions spawn in that dungeon and thus have witnessed this problem occur a lot more than other players. A lot of players don't even notice it until I point it out. It is still extremely annoying and should be modified for when it does happen it can be an asboulute pain.
@W.Darius
That is actually a good idea! Ultimately we don't want doubloon Minions to spawn where our companions were supposed to be and your idea addresses the issue in such a way that the doubloon is still used in the first go.

Either way as a pirate who does a lot of runs with a lot of Minions spawning in the hardest story line dungeon it is a big nuisance for me and I want this to be modified ASAP.