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Musketeers underpowered in Ranked?

AuthorMessage
Petty Officer
Dec 26, 2012
54
Does anyone else think that Musketeers are currently underpowered in terms of battle options in PVP? Note: I am by NO means saying that Musketeers are "useless" or "impossible to win" with in fact i've fought against champions and still beat them, I just think the lack of new powers are really what hinder them? I'll explain my reasoning:

1. Lack of new powers:
Musketeers rely on their powers since powers never miss, and they are supposed to be a defensive class who use the battle-board to their advantage. The lack of new powers such as traps (which really don't help in certain situations but i'll get to that later) make it harder for to win. I'm extremely grateful for our Tempest of Torpedoes especially for having knockback and Scatter Spike for covering a wide area, but having just that to prevent the opponents from crossing over isn't enough.

2. Lack of defenses:
Don't get me wrong, it's true that Musketeers can get Valor's armor and Fortress just like every other class and i'm happy for it. But what I mean is the fact that once an enemy is close, there's not much you can do. (Especially when a person has fortress which basically makes our bombs and traps almost useless since the damage is usually low). Why do Witchdoctors get good defensive spells such as Mojo Reaver once an enemy is super close? Why are they allowed to have some spells with unlimited range such as Mournsong? If anything, they almost do a better job at defending and staying in one spot more than Musketeers do in Ranked PVP. Also to note, I do not hate Witchdoctors, in fact its actually one of my favorite classes to play as, but they have so many tools which we lack.

3. Every other class has an advantage over us:
I'll start from least to most likely to have an advantage:

Musketeer:
This is a 50/50 match-up if you ask me, so basically the better Musketeer will win.

Swashbuckler:
Swashbucklers can use Black Fog and can simply walk through our bombs/traps thanks to Alert 2, but even then, their companions are easy to kill so I wouldn't say it's too bad.

Privateer:
Privateers generally have low agility and Musketeers can hit all of their companions and have a chance to critical on them the most, and dodge buffs are almost useless against Musketeers. Even then, it's still a great support class and they can simply Firstmate's Boon Nausica (If they have her) and they can one shot someone easily.

Buccaneer:
Buccaneers are basically the tanks in the game which means that they can take many hits, and they can reduce our accuracy and can chain hits (especially since Musketeers have bad dodge). Plus it doesn't help how we have low strength as well. But the class is supposed to have an advantage anyway so it's fair.

Witchdoctor:
Witchdoctors tend to use Old Scratch for Mojo boosting, which can make them insanely powerful. They also have summons which can stall and they generally have better range than us so they don't need to move to kill us.

Does anyone agree with this? Thoughts?
Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
398
AllToonedUp on Aug 1, 2016 wrote:
Does anyone else think that Musketeers are currently underpowered in terms of battle options in PVP? Note: I am by NO means saying that Musketeers are "useless" or "impossible to win" with in fact i've fought against champions and still beat them, I just think the lack of new powers are really what hinder them? I'll explain my reasoning:

1. Lack of new powers:
Musketeers rely on their powers since powers never miss, and they are supposed to be a defensive class who use the battle-board to their advantage. The lack of new powers such as traps (which really don't help in certain situations but i'll get to that later) make it harder for to win. I'm extremely grateful for our Tempest of Torpedoes especially for having knockback and Scatter Spike for covering a wide area, but having just that to prevent the opponents from crossing over isn't enough.

2. Lack of defenses:
Don't get me wrong, it's true that Musketeers can get Valor's armor and Fortress just like every other class and i'm happy for it. But what I mean is the fact that once an enemy is close, there's not much you can do. (Especially when a person has fortress which basically makes our bombs and traps almost useless since the damage is usually low). Why do Witchdoctors get good defensive spells such as Mojo Reaver once an enemy is super close? Why are they allowed to have some spells with unlimited range such as Mournsong? If anything, they almost do a better job at defending and staying in one spot more than Musketeers do in Ranked PVP. Also to note, I do not hate Witchdoctors, in fact its actually one of my favorite classes to play as, but they have so many tools which we lack.

3. Every other class has an advantage over us:
I'll start from least to most likely to have an advantage:

Musketeer:
This is a 50/50 match-up if you ask me, so basically the better Musketeer will win.

Swashbuckler:
Swashbucklers can use Black Fog and can simply walk through our bombs/traps thanks to Alert 2, but even then, their companions are easy to kill so I wouldn't say it's too bad.

Privateer:
Privateers generally have low agility and Musketeers can hit all of their companions and have a chance to critical on them the most, and dodge buffs are almost useless against Musketeers. Even then, it's still a great support class and they can simply Firstmate's Boon Nausica (If they have her) and they can one shot someone easily.

Buccaneer:
Buccaneers are basically the tanks in the game which means that they can take many hits, and they can reduce our accuracy and can chain hits (especially since Musketeers have bad dodge). Plus it doesn't help how we have low strength as well. But the class is supposed to have an advantage anyway so it's fair.

Witchdoctor:
Witchdoctors tend to use Old Scratch for Mojo boosting, which can make them insanely powerful. They also have summons which can stall and they generally have better range than us so they don't need to move to kill us.

Does anyone agree with this? Thoughts?
Yeah I agree with you, I'm no pvp expert but I think musketeer need more diversity, they're all about traps and powers.

And as you said, once opponent passed your traps you're pretty much doomed.

They have too many redudant powers too if you ask me, like I never use the cross shaped ones... all their powers are basically the same, just different shapes and damage.

I was working on a musk to maybe try it in pvp... but after seeing what they got after this update I gave up lol.

They have many epics, but they are useful vs other musketeers mainly (quick draw, true grit)

If I had to give suggestions, I think they could use powers with knockback, and some kind of teleport, that way even if enemies passed your traps, you can still make use of them.. somewhat.

There are also powers that allow you to move and attack at the same time, like Bonnie's and the one from crown shop,
I think musk should be able to learn those themselves.
Petty Officer
Jul 25, 2013
75
AllToonedUp on Aug 1, 2016 wrote:
Does anyone else think that Musketeers are currently underpowered in terms of battle options in PVP? Note: I am by NO means saying that Musketeers are "useless" or "impossible to win" with in fact i've fought against champions and still beat them, I just think the lack of new powers are really what hinder them? I'll explain my reasoning:

1. Lack of new powers:
Musketeers rely on their powers since powers never miss, and they are supposed to be a defensive class who use the battle-board to their advantage. The lack of new powers such as traps (which really don't help in certain situations but i'll get to that later) make it harder for to win. I'm extremely grateful for our Tempest of Torpedoes especially for having knockback and Scatter Spike for covering a wide area, but having just that to prevent the opponents from crossing over isn't enough.

2. Lack of defenses:
Don't get me wrong, it's true that Musketeers can get Valor's armor and Fortress just like every other class and i'm happy for it. But what I mean is the fact that once an enemy is close, there's not much you can do. (Especially when a person has fortress which basically makes our bombs and traps almost useless since the damage is usually low). Why do Witchdoctors get good defensive spells such as Mojo Reaver once an enemy is super close? Why are they allowed to have some spells with unlimited range such as Mournsong? If anything, they almost do a better job at defending and staying in one spot more than Musketeers do in Ranked PVP. Also to note, I do not hate Witchdoctors, in fact its actually one of my favorite classes to play as, but they have so many tools which we lack.

3. Every other class has an advantage over us:
I'll start from least to most likely to have an advantage:

Musketeer:
This is a 50/50 match-up if you ask me, so basically the better Musketeer will win.

Swashbuckler:
Swashbucklers can use Black Fog and can simply walk through our bombs/traps thanks to Alert 2, but even then, their companions are easy to kill so I wouldn't say it's too bad.

Privateer:
Privateers generally have low agility and Musketeers can hit all of their companions and have a chance to critical on them the most, and dodge buffs are almost useless against Musketeers. Even then, it's still a great support class and they can simply Firstmate's Boon Nausica (If they have her) and they can one shot someone easily.

Buccaneer:
Buccaneers are basically the tanks in the game which means that they can take many hits, and they can reduce our accuracy and can chain hits (especially since Musketeers have bad dodge). Plus it doesn't help how we have low strength as well. But the class is supposed to have an advantage anyway so it's fair.

Witchdoctor:
Witchdoctors tend to use Old Scratch for Mojo boosting, which can make them insanely powerful. They also have summons which can stall and they generally have better range than us so they don't need to move to kill us.

Does anyone agree with this? Thoughts?
I don't really do much musket PvP, but I think the problem is that muskets have a harder time setting up. Normally, a musket will have to take around 5 turns to set up efficiently (position, barricade or bomb all 3 openings, protection buffs, and maybe a few traps and a layer of bombs), but a buck can rush you on their 2nd round, a buckler probably 3rd, and privy, well, doesn't really matter, cause we all have to agree that double fort absorb boon nausica doesn't really care about bombs and is only scared of purge. Additionally, the epics that they got weren't even very useful, double tap tends to hurt them more vs other muskets and buckler, and although quick draw 3 was great, how easy is it to target someone else with a fogged nausica?

Additionally, muskets tend to carry very few forts, maybe 2 and an absorb, yet buckler carries 3 forts, and doesn't really need another one, bucks have the most protections in the game, privy generally carries around 4-6 forts and an absorb, and witches carry around 2 forts, 2 absorbs, and a levy. Musket gear sets also are basically forced to carry purge and need at least one relentless 3 unit or a grit unit to take down nausica.

Although your companions have more range than witch companions, witch naturally has the upper hand, and muskets who were good vs buck now have to handle with alert 2, and they don't have any time vs bucks. If muskets got a fort patch, musket would already be so much more playable.
Ensign
Dec 10, 2014
4
AllToonedUp on Aug 1, 2016 wrote:
Does anyone else think that Musketeers are currently underpowered in terms of battle options in PVP? Note: I am by NO means saying that Musketeers are "useless" or "impossible to win" with in fact i've fought against champions and still beat them, I just think the lack of new powers are really what hinder them? I'll explain my reasoning:

1. Lack of new powers:
Musketeers rely on their powers since powers never miss, and they are supposed to be a defensive class who use the battle-board to their advantage. The lack of new powers such as traps (which really don't help in certain situations but i'll get to that later) make it harder for to win. I'm extremely grateful for our Tempest of Torpedoes especially for having knockback and Scatter Spike for covering a wide area, but having just that to prevent the opponents from crossing over isn't enough.

2. Lack of defenses:
Don't get me wrong, it's true that Musketeers can get Valor's armor and Fortress just like every other class and i'm happy for it. But what I mean is the fact that once an enemy is close, there's not much you can do. (Especially when a person has fortress which basically makes our bombs and traps almost useless since the damage is usually low). Why do Witchdoctors get good defensive spells such as Mojo Reaver once an enemy is super close? Why are they allowed to have some spells with unlimited range such as Mournsong? If anything, they almost do a better job at defending and staying in one spot more than Musketeers do in Ranked PVP. Also to note, I do not hate Witchdoctors, in fact its actually one of my favorite classes to play as, but they have so many tools which we lack.

3. Every other class has an advantage over us:
I'll start from least to most likely to have an advantage:

Musketeer:
This is a 50/50 match-up if you ask me, so basically the better Musketeer will win.

Swashbuckler:
Swashbucklers can use Black Fog and can simply walk through our bombs/traps thanks to Alert 2, but even then, their companions are easy to kill so I wouldn't say it's too bad.

Privateer:
Privateers generally have low agility and Musketeers can hit all of their companions and have a chance to critical on them the most, and dodge buffs are almost useless against Musketeers. Even then, it's still a great support class and they can simply Firstmate's Boon Nausica (If they have her) and they can one shot someone easily.

Buccaneer:
Buccaneers are basically the tanks in the game which means that they can take many hits, and they can reduce our accuracy and can chain hits (especially since Musketeers have bad dodge). Plus it doesn't help how we have low strength as well. But the class is supposed to have an advantage anyway so it's fair.

Witchdoctor:
Witchdoctors tend to use Old Scratch for Mojo boosting, which can make them insanely powerful. They also have summons which can stall and they generally have better range than us so they don't need to move to kill us.

Does anyone agree with this? Thoughts?
About musketeer's range, they get sniper shot. Musketeers can buff their traps with scratch's buff, which will do mass damage, I agree about musketeers being quite squishy, but witches are too. For that you can get gear that gives you fortress. I wish you luck with your musketeer, and I recommend that you use Nausica if you have her, and spam traps. I hope this message is helpful!
Petty Officer
Dec 26, 2012
54
pirate8539 on Aug 1, 2016 wrote:
About musketeer's range, they get sniper shot. Musketeers can buff their traps with scratch's buff, which will do mass damage, I agree about musketeers being quite squishy, but witches are too. For that you can get gear that gives you fortress. I wish you luck with your musketeer, and I recommend that you use Nausica if you have her, and spam traps. I hope this message is helpful!
Actually I do have Nausica and what I do is that I fort her, charge at the captain, spread my teammates out and shield myself to basically let the job take itself lol. But what I meant by Witchdoctors outranging us is that generally Witchdoctors (minus the Nefarious staff and Staff of Power) use Phule's wand, and Moo Manchu's wand. Which has 6+ range, which basically gives them 7 range, while Musketeers generally have 4/5 range depending on the gun that you are using. Combined with that and Mojo Storm/Mournsong (which can do like 1000+ damage with Old Scratch), they can kill us before we can even approach them. They don't need to move to kill which basically makes our bombs and traps useless against them unless if you can survive to kill them.

Sniper shots cannot chain hits with Burst Fire/Double Tap/etc. because our range is not as good as Witchdoctors. Its a hit with unlimited range, yes. But its not that powerful, it only does 600-700 at most, and even less with shields. Witchdoctors also have high mojo/will and their Valor's Armor can absorb over 2000+ damage at least, they also can spam summons as distractions and to rack up damage. Combined with this, Mojo Reaver, and Teleport, they can be very deadly no matter where they are.

I understand that Musketeers are supposed to their range to their advantage and they aren't supposed to be unstoppable in close combat. But as you said they're quite squishy. My biggest problem is that I think that Musketeers lack overall good damage (traps and bombs do like 200-400 damage against Fortress which is super common in Ranked) and they just don't have enough tools to do anything when anyone is near them. I don't want Musketeers do be "the best" in PVP, I just wish that that issues toward them are fixed in the future.
Ensign
Nov 22, 2012
3
Dude, I totlly agree. After I beat Kane for he tenth time with my musketeer, I did some ranked and won, one out of thirty matches! the one I won was the only musketeer I fought.

Lavish Devin Yawl 70 Red Max 65 Killer Zac 41
Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
163
My Musketeer is by far my most unlucky character, whenever RNG kicks me in the booty it's specifically on Musketeer. After playing a handful of matches I've seen that the Alert 2 really favors Buckler in the new meta of the match up. Since it came out I really haven't won as consistently as I use too vs them, while vs all other match ups I've done consistently well in. I still haven't lost to a privateer surprisingly this meta and am 60/40 in the Musketeer vs Witchdoctor match up. IMO Musketeer is fine and people are just not playing it correctly, you can go look at the recent Pirate101 Central tournament where Zane the top musket IG by far (or possibly tied w/ Mark Webb, that's a personal vote) won, though he did fight in R1 the only non-known player in the tour he still won a lot of matches with a bad match up. I guess that's Sparring Chamber and can't be accounted for but I do not think Musketeers are "underpowered" I just think it's too early into the new meta to really call what class is "underpowered" or the "weakest" until mid-fall. That's when I believe the meta will settle.
Ensign
Jul 26, 2013
28
Agreed
I was confused why we didn't get something useful like stock assault or burst fire. Double tap three has no use other than to say 3 it doesn't boost anything and we already have 3 hits from double tap 3
Lieutenant
Oct 26, 2013
112
musket is the one class more underpowered than witch
a musket can beat a buck if their traps are strong enough but with all the forts they use its hard to do
basically if a buck uses their forts you lose
if a swash puts on black fog and is alert two you lose
if a privy uses blast of discord, uses boon, or uses forts and heals you lose
pvp is quite unfair to the ranged classes.
Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
163
nefarious alex on Aug 20, 2016 wrote:
musket is the one class more underpowered than witch
a musket can beat a buck if their traps are strong enough but with all the forts they use its hard to do
basically if a buck uses their forts you lose
if a swash puts on black fog and is alert two you lose
if a privy uses blast of discord, uses boon, or uses forts and heals you lose
pvp is quite unfair to the ranged classes.
Actually, a lot of Musketeers and Witchdoctor's did quiet well early on in the season because everyone was playing Privateer.

Arguably the top 2 classes to beat Privateer with atm are Witchdoctor and Musketeer. Musketeers always should carry Purge so if they boon rush a nausica, they will most likely lose. Musketeers late game can just outright own a Privateer because the best win condition for a Privateer is naturally kill all the enemy musketeers then tank out the rest. So by their only win condition being "Win" they normally won't last in the late game so by spreading out and pressuring early on while staying in a 3x3 range for when they push with Nausica. If you bring it down to a 2v1 with any of your Musketeer companions alive you will almost ALWAYS win.

Witchdoctor have turn 1 occoborus to pretty much shut down a privy for 5 turns of the game. Witch can slow the enemy threats to stall even larger and start spamming mournsongs from a distant, alongside scorpions pushing for chip damage or if you have Trees practically walling them into a corner. Range classes currently are completely fine as long as Privateer is the popular class, if Buccaneer/Swashbuckler become a popular class (like they were last meta) then yes, the ranged classes may struggle. But that's called "class balance" that's their weakness. So ya....
Petty Officer
Nov 05, 2012
96
yeah and with assassins stride and sundering strike things are worse than ever, with the stride a swashbuckler can totally nullify all of a musketeers powers except for their bombs and with sundering strike you just can't escape a buccaneer anymore, it just dosen't happen.