anecorbie on Apr 8, 2016 wrote:

I don't know why there aren't more posts about other classes when Buccaneers are at the top of their game doing horrendous damage and stacking shields.
And Old Scratch has certainly caused a lot of controversy in Ranked PVP or are you just disregarding those posts because it's not about SBs?
Consider many classes are using him ( not just WDs, but Muskets and Privies ) and using him with excellent results.
Frankly, I'm sick of all the whining about SBs when there are counters and strategies, but players aren't utilizing them and expect KI to give them a solution by knocking down one class!

Well apparently bucaneers arent as OP as swashbucklers?

Old scratch isnt an argument anymore, everyone can use him so he's equal for everyone.

And seriously, you just cant admit the truth... Do you see swashbucklers having to adapt to a certain class?
No they just fog in every battle, they dont even need to think.

While other classes have to adapt to swashbucklers, and with what counters?

As Celestialmaster said nothing works.

But yeah, its balanced right? Biased opinion.

Silver Angel on Apr 8, 2016 wrote:

Well apparently bucaneers arent as OP as swashbucklers?

Old scratch isnt an argument anymore, everyone can use him so he's equal for everyone.

And seriously, you just cant admit the truth... Do you see swashbucklers having to adapt to a certain class?
No they just fog in every battle, they dont even need to think.

While other classes have to adapt to swashbucklers, and with what counters?

As Celestialmaster said nothing works.

But yeah, its balanced right? Biased opinion.

Have you tried using a pet with scent 2/3?

Have you tried using companions with First Strike 3?

Have you tried being more offensive early on before they use fog?

Have you tried being more defensive earlier, bracing yourself for the "fog rush"?

Have you tried using different companions that can help you with that defense/offense?

Have you taken into account that others have stated MANY more useful ways to beat swashbucklers?

Have you given up because one class is "easier" to play than the rest?

Have you realized ALL classes have their huge perks?

Have you read this entire thread, particularly the part where technomage stated his outstanding pvp records for 2 classes, neither of which were buckler?

PvP ISN'T balanced, you're 100% right, RNG is a huge factor at times unfortunately.

Also, if you KNOW what to expect from the average buckler, then doesn't that make it EASIER for you since pvp is a game of tactics?

I don't think I need say more if you TRULY can say yes to all of those questions.

-Noble Wolf Hawkins

Well, I now see why bucklers never change their strategy. I played a buckle yesterday who used the nefarious staff, Bonnie, zeena, and Pepe (all with bad epic picks). He also never used black fog. Safe to say I beat him. But, it also goes to show hat swashbucklers are almost force to fog, use Fan, and all these things we despise, or else they just get demolished. There is no diversity in that class, because when they try to branch out and be differnet, (something every other class can do) they lose.

Wolf SkullRider on Apr 9, 2016 wrote:

Have you tried using a pet with scent 2/3?

Have you tried using companions with First Strike 3?

Have you tried being more offensive early on before they use fog?

Have you tried being more defensive earlier, bracing yourself for the "fog rush"?

Have you tried using different companions that can help you with that defense/offense?

Have you taken into account that others have stated MANY more useful ways to beat swashbucklers?

Have you given up because one class is "easier" to play than the rest?

Have you realized ALL classes have their huge perks?

Have you read this entire thread, particularly the part where technomage stated his outstanding pvp records for 2 classes, neither of which were buckler?

PvP ISN'T balanced, you're 100% right, RNG is a huge factor at times unfortunately.

Also, if you KNOW what to expect from the average buckler, then doesn't that make it EASIER for you since pvp is a game of tactics?

I don't think I need say more if you TRULY can say yes to all of those questions.

-Noble Wolf Hawkins

Maybe you're the one that doesnt read the whole thread? (and others regarding swashbucklers)

Even if a way to beat swashbuckler works *once in a while* it doesnt change the fact they're dominating badly.

Technomage is a special case as he dedicates his life to pvp and probably has all the drops he ever wanted, plus champion gear.

Yes pvp is also about luck with drops. When you have done over 100 runs of tower and still didnt get a soul shroud,

you have the right to give up.

anecorbie on Apr 11, 2016 wrote:

If you give up, then you'll never get it. Speaking as one still farming Miranda and using my other pirates in the Tower, because I still don't have the Imperial Boots of Moo Manchu or a Staff of Power for my Privy & secondary Swashbuckler
I have everything else from that tower ( at least one of each item ) or multiples - persistence pays off.

Yeah well it gets boring you know? Especially now fast combat basically killed tower for me.

I have done Miranda dozens of times too, still no jacket eh... I even spent hundreds of crowns on the chest, still nothing.

I tell you, drop rates are ridiculous :/

TechnomagePvP on Apr 12, 2016 wrote:

I feel like you took offense to Wolfy's statements. But Wolf is completely right. When spring started he fought a lot of the top champ wep using bucklers and went 7-0 quickly. He has adapted pvp to what counters the top trends and plays differently then most bucklers cause of it. This is what separates the bad from the good and the good from the pros adaption.

Not really, just didnt feel like answering all those questions while answers are everywhere on the boards.

It's not a handful of elite pvp'ers who's going to change the fact swashbucklers still dominate badly.

But on topic at hand, which is the topic title by the way... yes swashbucklers dont need strategy, just a single card.

I'll even say they dont even need to bother farming for gear, they can win most their match as it is.

Silver Angel on Apr 12, 2016 wrote:

Not really, just didnt feel like answering all those questions while answers are everywhere on the boards.

It's not a handful of elite pvp'ers who's going to change the fact swashbucklers still dominate badly.

But on topic at hand, which is the topic title by the way... yes swashbucklers dont need strategy, just a single card.

I'll even say they dont even need to bother farming for gear, they can win most their match as it is.

Ah yes, the power that doesn't show up half of the time is the only thing swashbucklers need to beat people. That's why I lose almost every time I play pvp, you're definitely correct about that.

Silver Angel on Apr 12, 2016 wrote:

Not really, just didnt feel like answering all those questions while answers are everywhere on the boards.

It's not a handful of elite pvp'ers who's going to change the fact swashbucklers still dominate badly.

But on topic at hand, which is the topic title by the way... yes swashbucklers dont need strategy, just a single card.

I'll even say they dont even need to bother farming for gear, they can win most their match as it is.

I can gladly tell you this, Bucklers do take skill. They did have there time in the light for a bit until the changes to scent. I actually have played a bit of buckler last season and it actually was a lot more difficult then one would expect. I didn't play the Purge rush strat because that gets shut down completely by Privy and did well. But I still went 31-3

Like I said before, there is already enough evidence that has been put into practice many times that no don't make buckler complete trash. But if anything the class is more of the 'you can play it and win' but it can easily get countered if you make one mistake. The fact that they rely on that one card is already a factor. If you adjust your strategy to target this oh so common threat to yourself, then you'll counter Fog hence countering Buckler completely correct?

This is why you see a lot of teams targeting buckler because they're the most commonly played class atm so a lot of people use Privy/Buck because they can hard counter Buckler so they know over 50% of there matches will be auto wins due to setting practically and will eventually hit champion just due to targetting such an over played class. If anything, Bucklers being so 'balanced' and easy to target as they are only makes the meta way easier to achieve Champion in. (This is why I bring Toro on Buck and more forts on Privy because it helps ensure a major advantage over bucklers since I know MAJORITY of my matches will be vs them so they're auto wins 99% of the time other then RNG factoring)

Even if swash supposedly take skills, they still dont need to adapt to their opponent, which every other class has to do vs buckler.

And while you focus your team/strategy to fight buckler, you're complete trash vs any other class.

So yes swash still have a huge advantage.

They may have a strategy, but its always the same.

I play(ed) privy, and seriously hard counter swash? I still wonder how.

Even if you have 50 forts, all they have to do is wait.

And as Celestial said, there's no other class that completely shut down another's bread and butter, being healing in case of privy.

And for 5 turns no less! And dont even get me started on spooky poison...

Wolf SkullRider on Apr 13, 2016 wrote:

I'm sorry but I couldn't disagree more here.

First off, that general Fog>Rush>Purge>Curse>Win strategy, while COMMON, won't work when you vs people who KNOW what they are doing. That said, I've been successful at buckler pvp for a while now and have never used purge from sprokect's key. I never got the drop from bishop, but I have been able to adapt and can still compete with the top players without this "no-brain-needed-strategy"

Secondly,
"...they still don't need to adapt to their opponent,"

I'm sorry but this is quite an ignorant statement, I have to adapt how I play on my buckler vs every single class and the companions/gear they bring. There is not a chance I'd ever charge right at a musketeer like I would a buck or witch. Privateers, how does one win without adapting there? As you even agreed with, privateers and healing? Buckler only has so much haste (especially if a privy brings emmet, also stated before) to get over there and win the same exact way that they can against a buck, who doesn't have the tools to save companions like privateers can.

Anyways, the main point is there is a ton of adapting EVERY class must do when facing a different class/set/trio of companions. Also, I feel the word "strategy" is too specific for the pirate being that (3rd time I can recall saying this recently) Pirate101 PvP is a game of TACTICS. Tactics alone can shut down strategies, so what do you call the rest of that match where a strategy "failed"? I call it ADAPTING to the situation. Surely you'll have a Plan B if swashbucklers ALWAYS win?

This thread is right, no strategy needed at all because strategy can become obsolete when you properly use tactics.

- Noble Wolf Hawkins

Of course you dont need purge, I lose to bucklers who dont even use it.

All you need is fog. Can you win without fog?

Sure yeah you adapt in battle, but you dont have to bring a specific setup of gear/companions solely to beat a single class.

You can win with the same companions/gear vs any class, while as I said, to beat a swash one needs specific setup which result of being useless vs other classes.

And you say it yourself, that fog-rush strategy wont work on someone who knows what they're doing, that further proves my point. One needs to be elite to beat a swash.

Isnt pvp supposed to be fun for everyone? Your average pvp'er cant win and gain ranks as it is, only elites can.

But a complete noob with a swash reaches champion easily, isnt there a problem there?

How is that supposed to encourage more players to pvp? Are you happy playing the same 10 people all day?

And what do you mean? Arent tactics and strategies the same thing. Please elaborate.

Silver Angel on Apr 13, 2016 wrote:

Of course you dont need purge, I lose to bucklers who dont even use it.

All you need is fog. Can you win without fog?

Sure yeah you adapt in battle, but you dont have to bring a specific setup of gear/companions solely to beat a single class.

You can win with the same companions/gear vs any class, while as I said, to beat a swash one needs specific setup which result of being useless vs other classes.

And you say it yourself, that fog-rush strategy wont work on someone who knows what they're doing, that further proves my point. One needs to be elite to beat a swash.

Isnt pvp supposed to be fun for everyone? Your average pvp'er cant win and gain ranks as it is, only elites can.

But a complete noob with a swash reaches champion easily, isnt there a problem there?

How is that supposed to encourage more players to pvp? Are you happy playing the same 10 people all day?

And what do you mean? Arent tactics and strategies the same thing. Please elaborate.

"All you need is fog. Can you win without fog?"

To be 100% honest, I consider anyone that can play buckler without relying on fog to show one of the best bucklers in game (only 2 others besides myself). I've been in countless matches where fog hasn't shown until late game and I'm still able to pull out the win in the end because I learned to play my class to it's fullest potential and can use a plan b when plan a doesn't work. In short, yes, I CAN indeed win without fog, and I know of only 2 others who can confidently say the same (they know who they are).

"Sure yeah you adapt in battle, but you dont have to bring a specific setup of gear/companions solely to beat a single class."

Is this not an example of "adapting to each class"? Also, in response to HoodooNerd, no, I wouldn't rush a musket in the same way that I would a buck. Yes the same companions and gear CAN work, but only if YOU KNOW what to expect and HOW to go about that duel in terms of waiting/rushing. That's another example of tactics btw.

"And you say it yourself, that fog-rush strategy wont work on someone who knows what they're doing, that further proves my point. One needs to be elite to beat a swash... Your average pvp'er cant win and gain ranks as it is, only elites can."

I'll be a simple as I can here. "Fog-rushing" can work on ANYONE, but it is HOW they react to the sudden damage spike that very turn of response that usually decides the W/L. Someone who knows what they are doing will have a plan a-c from the very moment the first turn timer starts ticking upon seeing their opponent and companions.

"Arent tactics and strategies the same thing..."

You're right btw, the average player doesn't fully understand that strategy and tactics are indeed 2 different things and HOW they relate to one another. Knowing how to use strategy & tactics together is what separates bad from average from good from elite from best.

Honestly, read my first post on this thread again & you'll find the answers you seek.

Silver Angel on Apr 13, 2016 wrote:

Of course you dont need purge, I lose to bucklers who dont even use it.

All you need is fog. Can you win without fog?

Sure yeah you adapt in battle, but you dont have to bring a specific setup of gear/companions solely to beat a single class.

You can win with the same companions/gear vs any class, while as I said, to beat a swash one needs specific setup which result of being useless vs other classes.

And you say it yourself, that fog-rush strategy wont work on someone who knows what they're doing, that further proves my point. One needs to be elite to beat a swash.

Isnt pvp supposed to be fun for everyone? Your average pvp'er cant win and gain ranks as it is, only elites can.

But a complete noob with a swash reaches champion easily, isnt there a problem there?

How is that supposed to encourage more players to pvp? Are you happy playing the same 10 people all day?

And what do you mean? Arent tactics and strategies the same thing. Please elaborate.

"But you don't have to bring a specific setup of gear/companions solely to beat a single class"
You don't know what class you are going to vs in ranked PvP, so it's best to make a team and strategy which has a chance va every class or you won't get anywhere in PvP

Yes, you guys are the weaker, rogue type class. However, instead of glass cannons you guys are glass nuclear missle launchers. You only need 1 fog because with that 1 fog you can kill 1/2 the enemy team! Absorbs and valor's forts still get you killed, and if you leave a companion unprotected, which is bound to happen, they get torn to shreds by 1 of our units.
Still waiting on an actual counter and book 15,
Matthew