DeathWiz101378 on May 17, 2014 wrote:

Ok, i know KingsIsle has tried their best to make all classes equal in PvP, but with this update it has failed yet again.
Arguably the weakest class in PvP before the update were buccaneers. But now, they're borderline Overpowered.
This is what i mean:
Buccaneers have access to Goronado, Barnabus and Peter Quint, all of whom have vicious charge. Buccaneers also train vicious and brutal charge, both of which have a -50% accuracy reduction. The common strategy is to quadruple vicious charge the pirate and his 3 companions, making them unable to hit and useless. From there, 3 of your 3 companions are crippled and useless, and then they attack the pirate until he dies, whilst your companions keep missing and missing.
Don't get me wrong, there are ways to counter this strategy, but those are few and class specific. My swash can counter these strategies by just using a black fog so they can't target my companions. My privy (though level 50, lol) can use a battle zeal to make things even for 3 rounds of its' 5 round duration. But musketeers and witchdoctors really have no defence against this, especially when going second.
And before i get spammed with "We won't make any changes for PvP" it also works in PvE. Just stack Vicious charges on 4 of the enemeis and they won't be able to hit you, making everything extremely easier.
But, this thread isn't made to file a nerf request to buccaneers. I want people to share their strategies for dealing with stuff like this. I realize nothing is ever fair in PvP, and every strategy has a counterstrategy (Where there's a will, there's a way XD).

Merciless Jean Percy, 65
Merciless Jack Ramsey, 65
Merciless Cass Spencer, 50
Merciless Quinn Quincy, 42

First off, everyone who has fought Gortez 20 times has access to Goronado from the crown shop; Bucks don't have him automatically. As a swash max level - I could first strike and riposte some of those attacks. Assassins strike and assassins shroud is also useful for these attacks. Again, don't bunch your team together, making them vulnerable to this kind of mass attack.

Many of us are aware of this strategy and I must say it is very disturbing. This wouldn't really be a problem for Musketeers if the dodge reduction powers weren't so useless and I don't want to see Buccaneers directly nerfed. I'm not gonna write a book about this, but I think one solution would be to make the reduce dodge series on Musketeers similar to Bonnie Anne's Scatterblast. They should be small blast areas-medium sized ones at most.

anecorbie on May 17, 2014 wrote:

First off, everyone who has fought Gortez 20 times has access to Goronado from the crown shop; Bucks don't have him automatically. As a swash max level - I could first strike and riposte some of those attacks. Assassins strike and assassins shroud is also useful for these attacks. Again, don't bunch your team together, making them vulnerable to this kind of mass attack.

Before you rush down to the "Reply" section you should read all of what i said. I didn't say buccs are borderline overpowered because thay have goronado, it's the companions like peter quint, barnabus and goronado that make them as fierce in pvp against witchdoctors and musketeers.
I have tried various times on my witch but i just cannot beat this strategy. My witchdoctor friends also try, wearing gear with multiple valor's shield cards but it still doesn't work.

( Continued ) He strikes her with vicious charge.

But then it's Esperanza's turn and with Assassin's strike or Shroud or any dance.gambit of steel, Buck will be in trouble and she still has El Toro, Bonnie Anne and Ratbeard with their attacks, and although they're reduced in Accuracy and agility, that doesn't affect power attacks.

So the pvp bout is still for anyone to win or lose.

If I'm off base or have missed something, I'd like to read your input.

DeathWiz101378 on May 18, 2014 wrote:

Before you rush down to the "Reply" section you should read all of what i said. I didn't say buccs are borderline overpowered because thay have goronado, it's the companions like peter quint, barnabus and goronado that make them as fierce in pvp against witchdoctors and musketeers.
I have tried various times on my witch but i just cannot beat this strategy. My witchdoctor friends also try, wearing gear with multiple valor's shield cards but it still doesn't work.

Sorry, DeathWiz, if you miss-read my reply, I didn't mean to imply that you were saying that only buccs had access to Goronado. I just wanted to clarify to other readers ( who may not know ) that Goronado is also available to them.
I did completely read your post several times, in fact. I beleive a max lvl Witchdoctor, combined with Hawcules and a musketeer ( Zeena? ) and Ratbeard maybe a good combo to this threat.

anecorbie on May 19, 2014 wrote:

( Continued ) He strikes her with vicious charge.

But then it's Esperanza's turn and with Assassin's strike or Shroud or any dance.gambit of steel, Buck will be in trouble and she still has El Toro, Bonnie Anne and Ratbeard with their attacks, and although they're reduced in Accuracy and agility, that doesn't affect power attacks.

So the pvp bout is still for anyone to win or lose.

If I'm off base or have missed something, I'd like to read your input.

I had clearly said "My swashbuckler isn't affected by this because i can just use black fog and hide all my companions.... But Musketeers and Witchdoctors really have no defence against this". Also, if goro charges bonnie, he is GUARANTEED to get a relentless. It's less likely for bonnie to burst as he has medium agility, and more likely for him to critical as he has higher strength against her low strength. And Goronado's dodge is around 122, bonnie's accuracy (giving you the benifit of the doubt) with trained accurate is 144. Add 25% from el toro's buff and it's 180. Half that and it's 90, which is unlikely to hit goronado as he dodges quite a bit. Barny has tritons song so he can take more damage than you think.
Quint always runs relentless 3 and second chance, so the scenario would be like this.
1.First strike quint
2( Possible relentless, unlikely as 94 Agility VS 55 isn't guaranteed)
3. Vicious charge.
4. First strike (possible relentless, but it is likely to miss.)
5. Glancing blow, guaranteed to hit.
6. Relentless from Quint (he attacked twice, making it a 70% base chance to relentless once)
7. Possible miss into Toro's Riposte
8. Reduced accuracy causes riposte to miss.
9. Second chance, might still miss.
10. If he had riposte 2, he'd riposte again, but is likely to miss.
So in that small exchange, toro hit him 2 times, both with first strikes, which are weaker than the average attack.
Peter quint hit with a vicious charge and glancing blow, both fairly strong attacks. El toro dealt around 400 damage with the double first strike (that's an overstatement, first strike is around 190 but oh well), and peter quint would deal around 600 damage in that turn. Toro has reduce accuracy, and with a base of 110 accuracy, he's pretty darn unlikely to hit, even with toro buff.
I doubt any bucc would charge a swashbuckler without using levy or kraken's lament, and so would the swashbuckler (if they had it from gear).
But i'm not trying to say buccaneers are op, i'd just like some suggestions to them for the witchdoctor and musketeer class.

i dunno, in my opinion the classes are now perfectly balanced! every class has its trump card that, under the right circumstances, leads to total annihilation. for instance, if a swash catches enough people with poison/curse, or if you leave yourself bunched up near someone with powerful AoE's, musks n' wds. i dont mean any offense, i am just trying to say that bucs are equal, and since until now we all sorta dismissed bucks as a threat, we just are not adequately prepared to face them!
Matthew Walker 65
Sly Sloan Silver 65
Matthew Walker 26

Each class has their own weaknesses in my opinion. My Buccaneer defeats any Musketeer easily, but he is killed easily by Swashbucklers, Privateers, and sometimes witchdoctors. My Privateer is weak to Witchdoctors. My Musketeer kills Witchdoctors easily. Honestly if you think about it, each class has their capabilities to each other other, I wont say Buccaneers are the main powerhouse here.

zuto4011a on May 26, 2014 wrote:

and what exactly is the privateer "trump" card?

I would assume their "trump card under the right circumstances" would be heals or their just beautiful critical boost. Either one can lead to annihilation.

Ratbeard on May 27, 2014 wrote:

Ok, i know KingsIsle has tried their best to make all classes equal in PvP, but with this update it has failed yet again.

I haven't tried my best to make classes equal in PvP. I haven't even tried my worst to make classes equal in PvP. I haven't balanced the classes for PvP at all.

So I don't know whether I should be happy to get credit for something I haven't done yet, or upset that that thing that I haven't done yet isn't living up to your expectations.

Just to echo a few points mentioned here:

1) YES, your primary stats are going to make a difference in combat. If your AGI-STR-WILL is higher than your target, you will get more critical hits, and some of your epics (notably Relentless-Burst Fire-Mojo Echo) will trigger more often.

2) YES, for the reason listed above, it's worth it for you to boost the stats that are normally your worst. If you are a Musketeer, boosting your STR will help keep Buccaneers from running riot all over you.

And here's another helpful tip: It is more effective to boost your stats "defensively" like this than it is to boost them for offense.

3) It is by design that every class is weak to one or more of the other classes. There's a rock-paper-scissors relationship (of sorts) between all the classes.

4) Strategies in PvP come and go. Somebody finds something super effective, and they "rule" for a while, then somebody else finds something to counter that, and they "rule" for a while. Sometimes it just happens over the course of time, and sometimes it happens when a new variable is introduced-- like Reckless Frenzy, or Nausicaa, or the change to the buff durations, or the change to critical hit calculations.

That's just the way it is-- trying to counter any particular dominant PvP strategy from the design side is like playing whack-a-mole. My job is to watch for the things that are systemic and endemic of PvP combat as a whole, and to fix those-- as opposed to nerfing one class, one power, or one companion or another at any given time.

I just have to ask (and I probably know the answer), when exactly can we expect Ranked PvP to arrive along with the re-balancing for PvP? I do hope it's soon.

Ratbeard on May 27, 2014 wrote:

Ok, i know KingsIsle has tried their best to make all classes equal in PvP, but with this update it has failed yet again.

I haven't tried my best to make classes equal in PvP. I haven't even tried my worst to make classes equal in PvP. I haven't balanced the classes for PvP at all.

So I don't know whether I should be happy to get credit for something I haven't done yet, or upset that that thing that I haven't done yet isn't living up to your expectations.

Just to echo a few points mentioned here:

1) YES, your primary stats are going to make a difference in combat. If your AGI-STR-WILL is higher than your target, you will get more critical hits, and some of your epics (notably Relentless-Burst Fire-Mojo Echo) will trigger more often.

2) YES, for the reason listed above, it's worth it for you to boost the stats that are normally your worst. If you are a Musketeer, boosting your STR will help keep Buccaneers from running riot all over you.

And here's another helpful tip: It is more effective to boost your stats "defensively" like this than it is to boost them for offense.

3) It is by design that every class is weak to one or more of the other classes. There's a rock-paper-scissors relationship (of sorts) between all the classes.

4) Strategies in PvP come and go. Somebody finds something super effective, and they "rule" for a while, then somebody else finds something to counter that, and they "rule" for a while. Sometimes it just happens over the course of time, and sometimes it happens when a new variable is introduced-- like Reckless Frenzy, or Nausicaa, or the change to the buff durations, or the change to critical hit calculations.

That's just the way it is-- trying to counter any particular dominant PvP strategy from the design side is like playing whack-a-mole. My job is to watch for the things that are systemic and endemic of PvP combat as a whole, and to fix those-- as opposed to nerfing one class, one power, or one companion or another at any given time.

3) It is by design that every class is weak to one or more of the other classes. There's a rock-paper-scissors relationship (of sorts) between all the classes.

That's definitely undeniable. It's something like this, correct?

Musketeers trump Swashbucklers and Privateers.

Swashbucklers trump Privateers and Witchdoctors.

Privateers trump Buccaneers and Swashbucklers.

Buccaneers trump Musketeers and Witchdoctors.

Witchdoctors trump Buccaneers and Swashbucklers.

I might be off with a few, but I think this is fairly close. I'd assume that this also means the classes haven't all gotten their utilities needed for providing some defense against the class or classes that beat them. Some classes for example Buccaneers and Swashbucklers have gotten their's early, while some others are still waiting.

"You can't rate the Pirate101 classes in PvP because they each have certain advantages over the other one as intended. Each class has its weak spots, but also has its own strong points, thriving in situations where the other four will struggle. Just like you can't really say there's a strongest Pokémon type, you can't say there's a strongest Pirate101 class."

I guess I was right there when I said this awhile ago. lol Great minds think alike... ^-^

you all keep saying if the privateer times their buffs right they can wreck an opponent, well hate to break it to you but a privateer must shield spam now to survive, leaving very little buff time, and since the buffs are slightly randomized as to what we will get the whole right time thing rarely occurs