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What witchdoctors need to be balanced in pvp

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AuthorMessage
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Tactician0 on Oct 8, 2017 wrote:
I don't do Ranked PvP.
Yet you have the nerve to tell others: "BTW, if you don't have a witch don't make suggestions on it's behalf." in a post about Witches in PVP?
If you did do ranked PVP on a witch, then you would see the problems this talent has in ranked matches. I haven't been making suggestions as to witchhunter as I don't PVP with my witch.
Petty Officer
Jan 09, 2013
79
Listen, people: I don't need Ranked PvP to fully realize and understand that no other class than Witch should have access to Witch Hunter.

I have 5 entire years of PvP experience. That's FIVE.
I'm more eligible than any of you to debate ANYTHING associated with Pirate101.

Don't argue with me about experience.

Period.
Ensign
Sep 03, 2010
14
Tactician0 on Oct 8, 2017 wrote:
Listen, people: I don't need Ranked PvP to fully realize and understand that no other class than Witch should have access to Witch Hunter.

I have 5 entire years of PvP experience. That's FIVE.
I'm more eligible than any of you to debate ANYTHING associated with Pirate101.

Don't argue with me about experience.

Period.
I mean I see you joined in 2013, shows it under your name and I see that it's only 2017.. that's 4 years in my eyes..
Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
Tactician0 on Oct 8, 2017 wrote:
Listen, people: I don't need Ranked PvP to fully realize and understand that no other class than Witch should have access to Witch Hunter.

I have 5 entire years of PvP experience. That's FIVE.
I'm more eligible than any of you to debate ANYTHING associated with Pirate101.

Don't argue with me about experience.

Period.
Firstly, yes I could agree that making the Witch Hunter talent exclusive to the witchdoctor class would be a good solution and something that KI should probably explore. The other 4 classes frankly don't need access to witch hunter at all. You're the first I've seen to suggest that actually so kudos to you there. I hope Ratbeard is paying attention.

Otherwise though the rest of your post is another highlight of your ignorance. You haven't stepped foot into ranked pvp but you want to claim that your "5 years of pvp experience" make you more qualified in an argument than any other person on these boards? Let's just say I find this quite laughable.
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Tactician0 on Oct 8, 2017 wrote:
Listen, people: I don't need Ranked PvP to fully realize and understand that no other class than Witch should have access to Witch Hunter.

I have 5 entire years of PvP experience. That's FIVE.
I'm more eligible than any of you to debate ANYTHING associated with Pirate101.

Don't argue with me about experience.

Period.
Removing Witchhunter from other classes isn't going to happen; that can of worms has already been opened and too many non-witches have spent a point on it. ( And it's useful in PVE. )
Everyone ( I'm the sole exception as I'm "relatively" new to PVP, but I'm not offering advice for this subject ) on this post has the same amount of experience as you - FIVE years of PVP in Central Tournaments plus the two years of Ranked. ( At least I know Wolf Skullrider does. )
Also, I'm sure the majority of posters here are just as qualified to debate anything P101 related as we have the same experience as you! ( Actually, maybe some have more experience as they got to play the beta version. )
Nerfing this talent should be the discussion here, plus any way to boost WD companions so that the WD class can become viable in PVP matches.
Petty Officer
Dec 26, 2012
54
...Anyway back on topic, there's no reason why the game cripples the Witchdoctor class so much when they already have so many glaring flaws. They have low accuracy, dodge, base health and armor, Witch Hunter destroys them to the point where you can lose from it activating just once, most Witchdoctor companions are unviable for competitive play due to the reasons stated above, and even with minion spamming, you can still lose if the opponent plays aggressive enough.

My main issue with the class in ranked is how there's little to no different strategies they can use. Melee Witches are a joke, they cannot afford to sacrifice their range aside from the scorpion staff and darkmoor shooty weapon, and Old Scratch is an absolute staple while the other Witch companions offer so little to the table. It would be so much better if Witch Hunter was banned from PVP altogether and if they buffed the other Witchdoctor companions to allow more variety. Even Musketeers have more diversity and choices in the meta despite being combo food as well.
Lieutenant
Jul 18, 2016
159
AllToonedUp on Oct 9, 2017 wrote:
...Anyway back on topic, there's no reason why the game cripples the Witchdoctor class so much when they already have so many glaring flaws. They have low accuracy, dodge, base health and armor, Witch Hunter destroys them to the point where you can lose from it activating just once, most Witchdoctor companions are unviable for competitive play due to the reasons stated above, and even with minion spamming, you can still lose if the opponent plays aggressive enough.

My main issue with the class in ranked is how there's little to no different strategies they can use. Melee Witches are a joke, they cannot afford to sacrifice their range aside from the scorpion staff and darkmoor shooty weapon, and Old Scratch is an absolute staple while the other Witch companions offer so little to the table. It would be so much better if Witch Hunter was banned from PVP altogether and if they buffed the other Witchdoctor companions to allow more variety. Even Musketeers have more diversity and choices in the meta despite being combo food as well.
I think you just contradicted yourself. Banning Witch Hunter from PvP will only serve to cripple Witchdoctors even more, since they have little to no strategy. I think the above idea is good, Witch Hunter should only be accessible to Witchdoctors, but I don't know if that'll ever happen. After all, non witches can still get Witch Hunter through Phule's Wand or even a pet grant. Making Witch Hunter Witchdoctor only will solve nothing, since you can still get it from a pet. I also don't think Witch Hunter needs a nerf, since Witchdoctors are already bad at PvP anyway, they need all the buffs they can get. My suggestion is, buff the Witchdoctor companions so they're actually viable in competitive play.
Petty Officer
Jan 09, 2013
79
To Lucas, 4.10.

To Anecorbie, I lack two months+beta. Whatever "experience" the first two months and beta could give anyone, I'm pretty sure it would be too little for me to not have gained it already; and probably in a quite short amount of time.
I agree with what should be discussed here. (You guys pushed me to mention experience with your accusations).

To Wolf, if disagreeing with you makes me ignorant, what does that scream about you and everyone else here? You all disagree with me too afterall.
Also, yes, I am VERY sure that my experience makes me more than qualified.
Ensign
Jul 12, 2016
41
AllToonedUp on Oct 9, 2017 wrote:
...Anyway back on topic, there's no reason why the game cripples the Witchdoctor class so much when they already have so many glaring flaws. They have low accuracy, dodge, base health and armor, Witch Hunter destroys them to the point where you can lose from it activating just once, most Witchdoctor companions are unviable for competitive play due to the reasons stated above, and even with minion spamming, you can still lose if the opponent plays aggressive enough.

My main issue with the class in ranked is how there's little to no different strategies they can use. Melee Witches are a joke, they cannot afford to sacrifice their range aside from the scorpion staff and darkmoor shooty weapon, and Old Scratch is an absolute staple while the other Witch companions offer so little to the table. It would be so much better if Witch Hunter was banned from PVP altogether and if they buffed the other Witchdoctor companions to allow more variety. Even Musketeers have more diversity and choices in the meta despite being combo food as well.
Yes, THANK YOU... it's honestly time to stop feeding the trolls.

While our base stats aren't the problem entirely, it's certainly true that the disadvantages we have are not justified by those stats (if we had an absurd x2 base mojo stat that would be another thing, but we don't). Summon spamming is a major problem imo because it's the only way for a witch to consistently win in ranked, and it really does create a diversity problem. Like I said earlier, I might want to use summer flames or even a phules wand for the extra range, but I can't because if I do, I know I won't be able to keep the buck or buckler back, and they'll get the witch hunt shield and then I'll die eventually.
I too think the best solution is to ban witch hunter from pvp.
Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
crimsonreaper5 on Oct 10, 2017 wrote:
I think you just contradicted yourself. Banning Witch Hunter from PvP will only serve to cripple Witchdoctors even more, since they have little to no strategy. I think the above idea is good, Witch Hunter should only be accessible to Witchdoctors, but I don't know if that'll ever happen. After all, non witches can still get Witch Hunter through Phule's Wand or even a pet grant. Making Witch Hunter Witchdoctor only will solve nothing, since you can still get it from a pet. I also don't think Witch Hunter needs a nerf, since Witchdoctors are already bad at PvP anyway, they need all the buffs they can get. My suggestion is, buff the Witchdoctor companions so they're actually viable in competitive play.
I'm not sure you understand what we've been discussing this entire time regarding witch hunter. The witch hunter in its current state HURTS witchdoctors more than it actually helps them because all classes have access to the epic from the secret trainer or a pet.

"I also don't think Witch Hunter needs a nerf, since Witchdoctors are already bad at PvP anyway, they need all the buffs they can get."

Do you understand what is wrong with your statement here? Witch hunter needs a nerf because in the hands of a non-witchdoctor fighting a witch it is broken. Witchdoctors themselves having witch hunter is all fine and dandy and can be considered a "buff" as you put it, but you have to take into account that the other 4 classes can also have witch hunter, at which point you'll (hopefully) realize that witch hunter indeed needs to be reworked and fixed.

Your last point though everyone in this entire game can agree with, witch companions are in desperate need of a buff.
Ensign
Jul 12, 2016
41
crimsonreaper5 on Oct 10, 2017 wrote:
I think you just contradicted yourself. Banning Witch Hunter from PvP will only serve to cripple Witchdoctors even more, since they have little to no strategy. I think the above idea is good, Witch Hunter should only be accessible to Witchdoctors, but I don't know if that'll ever happen. After all, non witches can still get Witch Hunter through Phule's Wand or even a pet grant. Making Witch Hunter Witchdoctor only will solve nothing, since you can still get it from a pet. I also don't think Witch Hunter needs a nerf, since Witchdoctors are already bad at PvP anyway, they need all the buffs they can get. My suggestion is, buff the Witchdoctor companions so they're actually viable in competitive play.
No he didn't contradict himself, you did. Just to clarify, witch hunter is an epic that hunts witch. Banning it from pvp actually gives witch an advantage, for obvious reasons. Also I'm confused wym by they have little to no strategy? As a witch who does ranked I can tell you we have to use more strategy than any other class because of our predicament.

I do agree that banning witch hunter from every class but witch is impossible, since we have pets and the wand (although the opponent would be giving up 200 damage on average for a wand that's only use is towards witch), and like anecorbie said, its just a can of worms. That's why witch hunter needs to be banned from pvp entirely.

Buffing witch doctor companions however is just not the answer to this problem.
Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
Tactician0 on Oct 10, 2017 wrote:
To Lucas, 4.10.

To Anecorbie, I lack two months+beta. Whatever "experience" the first two months and beta could give anyone, I'm pretty sure it would be too little for me to not have gained it already; and probably in a quite short amount of time.
I agree with what should be discussed here. (You guys pushed me to mention experience with your accusations).

To Wolf, if disagreeing with you makes me ignorant, what does that scream about you and everyone else here? You all disagree with me too afterall.
Also, yes, I am VERY sure that my experience makes me more than qualified.
Compared to myself and the other regular pvp people on this thread who have done ranked pvp, you're objectively less qualified, there is nothing to disagree with or have an opinion on.

Anywho though, I don't want to lose the focus of this thread responding to your irrelevant comments. If you agree with what's being discussed about witchdoctors and pvp then great, and if you don't then you're more than welcome to share your thoughts. However I would ask that you be a little more clear with your points as to prevent this confusion that has escalated into an irrelevant argument from happening again.
Captain
Apr 24, 2016
520
this is one of the reasons I don't do ranked (unless its against a friend, that's another story...).... anyways ignore me.
Petty Officer
Dec 26, 2012
54
crimsonreaper5 on Oct 10, 2017 wrote:
I think you just contradicted yourself. Banning Witch Hunter from PvP will only serve to cripple Witchdoctors even more, since they have little to no strategy. I think the above idea is good, Witch Hunter should only be accessible to Witchdoctors, but I don't know if that'll ever happen. After all, non witches can still get Witch Hunter through Phule's Wand or even a pet grant. Making Witch Hunter Witchdoctor only will solve nothing, since you can still get it from a pet. I also don't think Witch Hunter needs a nerf, since Witchdoctors are already bad at PvP anyway, they need all the buffs they can get. My suggestion is, buff the Witchdoctor companions so they're actually viable in competitive play.
I'm 100% fine with Witch Hunter staying only for Witchdoctors, but my point was that Witch Hunter contributes as to why Witchdoctors have below average results in PVP, it's obviously not JUST because of that talent alone, but other classes having it isn't fair at all since you can miss an attack and Witch Hunter can still activate anyway AND it's essentially a fort for..... Playing as a Witchdoctor... Why punish witches for doing their job which is casting powerful magic? It's one thing if it's Witch vs Witch but as i've said above, if you play aggressively enough, the Witchdoctor is doomed. At least with ditto matches, the better player will more likely win whereas, say a Buccaneer can use Highland Charge, rush down to your pirate and you want to kill the captain before they kill you? Nope 1000+ damage from Witch Hunter alone.

The vast majority of the PVP community agrees that Witch Hunter is not balanced at all, and if something isn't balanced and is part of the reason why Witchdoctors needs to be buffed, it needs to be addressed.
Gunner's Mate
Dec 25, 2015
285
Tactician0 on Oct 5, 2017 wrote:
Fully agreed on fixing Witch companions/players and definitely increasing their accuracy. However, I think most people don't realize what they're talking about when it comes to Witch Hunter. First of all, lack of experience and knowledge about Witch class is causing some very reckless suggestions here.

NO, Witch Hunter should not be removed nor nerfed. I don't know how much experience any of you have in PVP; because there is only one thing that matters to a Witch, and if you know what it is, you wouldn't care about the current form of Witch Hunter.

BTW, if you don't have a Witch, please don't make suggestions on its behalf.
There is no possible way witch hunter doesn't matter. A buck can get around there weakness of hold the line by simply not charging, a buckler by killing FS3 units before they go hidden, privy has no weaknesses, musket can kill there weakness(nausica) via traps since she doesn't respond to those. To get around witch hunter we need to not hit, yes, not hit, so we can not do any damage ourselves with witch hunter enemies. If we do hit we take an extra 600 damage and do half damage. Our most powerful asset suffers the most from this, a buck can and will one round us for using mojo reaver thanks to witch hunter. From what I have seen there is only one good witch because witch hunter can not effect him. Its dark eric silver(eric stormbringer) and it can't effect him because he is a melee witch. So to battle we are forced to either go melee with our tiny health, or not hit which means, well you can't hit. So Mr witch pvp professional, what can a witch really do that makes witch hunter not matter?
Petty Officer
Jan 09, 2013
79
crimsonreaper5 on Oct 10, 2017 wrote:
I think you just contradicted yourself. Banning Witch Hunter from PvP will only serve to cripple Witchdoctors even more, since they have little to no strategy. I think the above idea is good, Witch Hunter should only be accessible to Witchdoctors, but I don't know if that'll ever happen. After all, non witches can still get Witch Hunter through Phule's Wand or even a pet grant. Making Witch Hunter Witchdoctor only will solve nothing, since you can still get it from a pet. I also don't think Witch Hunter needs a nerf, since Witchdoctors are already bad at PvP anyway, they need all the buffs they can get. My suggestion is, buff the Witchdoctor companions so they're actually viable in competitive play.
I think if Witch Hunter is inaccessible to non-Witch, then they simply can't get a hold of it even with Phule's Wand or a pet grant. I don't see why KI would refuse this idea though.
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Tactician0 on Oct 10, 2017 wrote:
I think if Witch Hunter is inaccessible to non-Witch, then they simply can't get a hold of it even with Phule's Wand or a pet grant. I don't see why KI would refuse this idea though.
"I don't see why KI would refuse this idea though."
They would refuse this idea, because there would be an immediate up-roar from players who bought the Witch Hunter talent with a training point, and it's not just the one point but actually 3 extra points for the pre-required talents that allow you to train WH. KI would have to give free resets if they went with this idea.
Pet grants and gear that grants WH would then need to be re-coded if KI were ever to remove this talent.
Plus, as I said, Witch Hunter is extremely useful in PVE. And Witch companions aren't the only ones capable of training WH but also Privateer companions - it seems that WH could be a viable talent for a Privy as well.
---------------------------
Adjusting WH for PVP is a better solution. what if a staffy weapon was required for WH to activate? Like Over Watch or Quick Draw won't activate if you don't have a shooty weapon equipped ( I know it doesn't activate at range with a combo. )
Reducing the damage and shield may work and be acceptable.
Petty Officer
Jan 09, 2013
79
Wolf SkullRider on Oct 10, 2017 wrote:
Compared to myself and the other regular pvp people on this thread who have done ranked pvp, you're objectively less qualified, there is nothing to disagree with or have an opinion on.

Anywho though, I don't want to lose the focus of this thread responding to your irrelevant comments. If you agree with what's being discussed about witchdoctors and pvp then great, and if you don't then you're more than welcome to share your thoughts. However I would ask that you be a little more clear with your points as to prevent this confusion that has escalated into an irrelevant argument from happening again.
But there is something to disagree about here. For example: I disagree that I'm less qualified.
Another example: I disagree that I'm the one started the irrelevant comments. If anything, I'm the one whom talked about Witch Hunter first and before you and most people here. My "experience" comments, by the way, were a response to your irrelevant accusations.

See NOW we can go back to topic! :)
Ensign
May 30, 2009
25
Tactician0 on Oct 10, 2017 wrote:
To Lucas, 4.10.

To Anecorbie, I lack two months+beta. Whatever "experience" the first two months and beta could give anyone, I'm pretty sure it would be too little for me to not have gained it already; and probably in a quite short amount of time.
I agree with what should be discussed here. (You guys pushed me to mention experience with your accusations).

To Wolf, if disagreeing with you makes me ignorant, what does that scream about you and everyone else here? You all disagree with me too afterall.
Also, yes, I am VERY sure that my experience makes me more than qualified.
Well since you're ''an experienced pvp player for 5 years'' according to your acclaims when spar chamber and brawlin' hall practice pvp systems came out nearly 4 years ago, Not only that, It says that you basically joined the game back in 2013 according to your message boards's date of join, Why don't we go for a 1v1 sometime later this week? I'm curious and want to see your skills that you've gained in those ''5 years''.
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
PirateyLogan on Oct 11, 2017 wrote:
Well since you're ''an experienced pvp player for 5 years'' according to your acclaims when spar chamber and brawlin' hall practice pvp systems came out nearly 4 years ago, Not only that, It says that you basically joined the game back in 2013 according to your message boards's date of join, Why don't we go for a 1v1 sometime later this week? I'm curious and want to see your skills that you've gained in those ''5 years''.
Logan, let's stick to the subject, we don't need this post shut down because of animosity.
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Which WD companions would a witchdoctor like to use in PVP? I see that many are very disappointed in Carcarious ( & I see their point ) however, does any here have a consensus of what could be done to make Carc en par with the other trainer companions?
Old Scratch seems to be a staple, but I see the comments that he's only useful for his Mojo Flow buffs. I know that when I see him on the opposite team, he becomes the one I want to get rid of first. And he's squishy.
What do you guys think of the Ophidian Flame Dancer? Or HooDoo Cornelius?
Lieutenant
Oct 12, 2010
186
My main concern is: what's with the removal of the complete power of Terra cotta warriors?

I know this isn't an exclusively Witchdoctor buff, but it's a summon, so...
I LOVED using that move all the time and it's the only thing that gave my Witchdoctor a chance in pvp, it really needs to be brought back. Since Witchdoctors need a buff, I suggest bringing it back on at least Witchdoctors, meaning make it so that Witchdoctors exclusively spawn the maximum amount of Terracotta warriors. I know this may be a bit controversial, but as long as it brings it back
Petty Officer
Jan 09, 2013
79
PirateyLogan on Oct 11, 2017 wrote:
Well since you're ''an experienced pvp player for 5 years'' according to your acclaims when spar chamber and brawlin' hall practice pvp systems came out nearly 4 years ago, Not only that, It says that you basically joined the game back in 2013 according to your message boards's date of join, Why don't we go for a 1v1 sometime later this week? I'm curious and want to see your skills that you've gained in those ''5 years''.
I don't want to. I'm scared.
Petty Officer
Jan 09, 2013
79
anecorbie on Oct 11, 2017 wrote:
"I don't see why KI would refuse this idea though."
They would refuse this idea, because there would be an immediate up-roar from players who bought the Witch Hunter talent with a training point, and it's not just the one point but actually 3 extra points for the pre-required talents that allow you to train WH. KI would have to give free resets if they went with this idea.
Pet grants and gear that grants WH would then need to be re-coded if KI were ever to remove this talent.
Plus, as I said, Witch Hunter is extremely useful in PVE. And Witch companions aren't the only ones capable of training WH but also Privateer companions - it seems that WH could be a viable talent for a Privy as well.
---------------------------
Adjusting WH for PVP is a better solution. what if a staffy weapon was required for WH to activate? Like Over Watch or Quick Draw won't activate if you don't have a shooty weapon equipped ( I know it doesn't activate at range with a combo. )
Reducing the damage and shield may work and be acceptable.
Your idea is good. However staffy/shooty allows you to use overwatch and other Musketeer talents. So what if staffy/slashy let's you use Witch Hunter into a roll of other melee talents such as relentless or blade storm. I know some pretty good combo weapons with good damage.
Gunner's Mate
Dec 25, 2015
285
anecorbie on Oct 11, 2017 wrote:
Which WD companions would a witchdoctor like to use in PVP? I see that many are very disappointed in Carcarious ( & I see their point ) however, does any here have a consensus of what could be done to make Carc en par with the other trainer companions?
Old Scratch seems to be a staple, but I see the comments that he's only useful for his Mojo Flow buffs. I know that when I see him on the opposite team, he becomes the one I want to get rid of first. And he's squishy.
What do you guys think of the Ophidian Flame Dancer? Or HooDoo Cornelius?
Neither of those are fit for pvp. The Ophidian isnt even fit for pve.
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