Ayy hello everyone!
In here, I'd like to talk about how I personally think the elite armada have hearts too, even if they are mechanical.
First, I'd like to start with Rooke. I mean, we all know he hates our guts. But note how you hear him state Deacon is his brother. There are multiple theories that support that they are related, like that they were once human and though experiment they were part puppet and part human, and Kane was the first of them and gathered people with a similar problem into his elite guard (I'm not so sure about this theory).
ANYWAYS, (i'm so chatty I'll stop the pointless chat) Bishop points out Rooke wants to crush you as revenge for Deacon. AAAaaaAAAhhh. Not just because he's under orders, but you incapacitated his brother. A small observation, but haha //feels.
Moving on, we have Phule. I think he is kind of messed up. Like, after he sent the Servus captains after you, he was like "I am sure we shall meet again." If he KNEW we wouldn't die, why would he leave it at that?? Also, he seems a little happy about the whole us being a thorn in the side to the armada thing. It seems he likes Pirates more than clockworks?? Even his dark side shows no care towards clockworks, only towards El Dorado stuff. Hm. Interesting, huh.
Onto Bishop: I don't really have a whole lot with him, he just kind of mentions Rooke a lot but they are both working together on the war against Marleybone. Back to Rooke, Rooke ALSO seems like he would be the type to care that Bishop's genius plans were foiled and that would be a bit embarrassing being the genius of the armada. Yay another reason to destroy you. My observations are strange.
Finally, Kane and Queen. We know pretty much NOTHING about them. But one theory is that they are married (i'm sure we all think that huh) so is that love or did they just kind of have to or i don't know. But if it's love then hahaha feels.
Just to let you know, i cried my eyes out when i killed Deacon because i felt bad about Rooke just standing there in General Tso's place like "You destoyed Deacon, my brother. I would have thought that, impossible."
But then he doesn't kill you because he's all like "ew you're not worthy to fight me petty human" and that keeps him from avenging his brother at the time he could.
I'm 1000% sure that almost everyone who reads this will disagree with me, but I'm just throwing my silly thoughts into the world because I am studying every last armada concept and NO ONE can stop me!

Dark Gillian Quincy

Dark Gillian Quinc... on Sep 9, 2014 wrote:

Ayy hello everyone!
In here, I'd like to talk about how I personally think the elite armada have hearts too, even if they are mechanical.
First, I'd like to start with Rooke. I mean, we all know he hates our guts. But note how you hear him state Deacon is his brother. There are multiple theories that support that they are related, like that they were once human and though experiment they were part puppet and part human, and Kane was the first of them and gathered people with a similar problem into his elite guard (I'm not so sure about this theory).
ANYWAYS, (i'm so chatty I'll stop the pointless chat) Bishop points out Rooke wants to crush you as revenge for Deacon. AAAaaaAAAhhh. Not just because he's under orders, but you incapacitated his brother. A small observation, but haha //feels.
Moving on, we have Phule. I think he is kind of messed up. Like, after he sent the Servus captains after you, he was like "I am sure we shall meet again." If he KNEW we wouldn't die, why would he leave it at that?? Also, he seems a little happy about the whole us being a thorn in the side to the armada thing. It seems he likes Pirates more than clockworks?? Even his dark side shows no care towards clockworks, only towards El Dorado stuff. Hm. Interesting, huh.
Onto Bishop: I don't really have a whole lot with him, he just kind of mentions Rooke a lot but they are both working together on the war against Marleybone. Back to Rooke, Rooke ALSO seems like he would be the type to care that Bishop's genius plans were foiled and that would be a bit embarrassing being the genius of the armada. Yay another reason to destroy you. My observations are strange.
Finally, Kane and Queen. We know pretty much NOTHING about them. But one theory is that they are married (i'm sure we all think that huh) so is that love or did they just kind of have to or i don't know. But if it's love then hahaha feels.
Just to let you know, i cried my eyes out when i killed Deacon because i felt bad about Rooke just standing there in General Tso's place like "You destoyed Deacon, my brother. I would have thought that, impossible."
But then he doesn't kill you because he's all like "ew you're not worthy to fight me petty human" and that keeps him from avenging his brother at the time he could.
I'm 1000% sure that almost everyone who reads this will disagree with me, but I'm just throwing my silly thoughts into the world because I am studying every last armada concept and NO ONE can stop me!

Dark Gillian Quincy

Hello, Dark Gillian Quincy!
Thank you for starting this post, you have some interesting insights to share. I disagree with you 100% about the clockworks ( so no surprise there, huh? )
That Rooke is angry that you destroyed Deacon, is because it is unimaginable to him that mere human ( with human failings ) could even try to fight ( let alone, beat ) an Elite. If he truly felt a kind of love for his 'brother', then the fact of our weakness would not stop his revenge. It is his ego that needs to be fed by destroying us. Deacon is his "brother" only because they come from the same creator.
There is more than a touch of sarcasm in Phule's comment of "I'm sure we will meet again". And I feel he relishes the thought of what Kane would do to any pirate who's a 'thorn in his side' should that pirate be unlucky enough to fall into his hands! * shudder *
Bishop is an ego-maniacal twisted genius, anything that disrupts his inventions must go!
It is a mistake to assume that because the Lady Elite is sitting next to Kane that they are married ( why would robots even need to be married? ) or that they in any way share power. What if she's seated there because she's his personal bodyguard, or assassin?
One thing we agree on is that the Armada is the most interesting, evil enemies we can face, truly worthy of the quest to stop them from gaining El Dorado!
I look forward to reading more of your posts!

I think you are right, Dark Gillian, that Kane and his Elites do have emotions... of a sort. If they were truly merely automata (robots) they wouldn't be so intensely angry with us (Rooke and Deacon), glorying verbally in their superior artistry (Bishop), or being disturbingly playful (Phule). Their behavior isn't necessarily logical; certainly in Rooke's case, he was so furious that it cost him everything (well, assuming he is gone, but considering his ship was blown to smithereens, it seems most probable).

The ordinary sort of Armada seems to be far more what you expect from automata. You come into their range; they demand you surrender, and if you don't, they attempt to exterminate you. That's all. The captains have a bit more range: for instance the Armada captain you first encounter on Fin Dorsal's ship, who when defeated, maliciously informs you "You think you've won... you haven't..." (Who thinks that guy was really creepy? I raise my hand to that). The Armada Captain, Caesarus Aureus (I think his name was) in Marleybone is another example of a higher degree of thinking and reflecting... maybe not capable of many emotions, but certainly capable of plenty of malice (and creepiness). And there's going to be more of this higher order Armada out there - not Elites, but plenty dangerous.

I do not think, however, that Kane and the Elites are really capable of love. A certain cohesiveness, yes: Rooke makes it plain that the Elites consider themselves brothers and sisters, although that seems more evinced in fraternal rivalry than affection. As far as the Lady Elite though, I do not think she is 'married' to Kane, or even his 'queen'. In my mind, I see her as another tool designed by Kane, like all the Elites, and like the others, a tool with a specific role in mind. And what is that tool? I have a feeling that recently we have been given a big hint. Though, this still is yet all speculation...

I like the way you think, 'Row4n412'. I too suspect that alchemy has been involved in the creation of the Armada, since it does seem that more than mechanics is involved here (or perhaps I want to think so because I like chemistry and its historical antecedents ). All kidding aside, it would make a lot of sense and fit very nicely into the 'scientific' world view of the time of the Age of Pirates... not that this is a historical game or anything like that, only those little snippets of period life add greatly to the fuller sense of the fantasy world of the Spiral. Like so many of the clothes we and the NPCs wear... (yep, here I am, thinking about clothes again).

I wonder, however, if there are spirits involved or we are looking at something more like a homunculus providing the 'living' aspect of the Armada. It seems likely some active 'vital force' is involved, but what? All good fun for speculation!

And yes, the Lady Elite's role... Blind Mew has hinted one is involved in 'public relations' and she does seem the likely candidate, especially in the way she is dressed: another sort of 'dress to impress', but unlike Deacon's intimidating dark aristocratic ensemble or Rooke's powerful 'black knight', hers sends the signal strongly of aristocratic lady. A different sort of enforcer than Rooke, convincing through charm rather than force.

And I am thinking that charm might be quite literal. Many of us have encountered the lovely & treacherous Miss Faye, who has the talent of making us believe that we should really be on her side... at least briefly. Faye does this through a mask, but what if the Lady Elite has charm as part of her essential nature?

Robots having emotions in science fiction is not uncommon. I remember a certain doctor who created a beloved android who programmed emotions for himself. This android also had a brother who was a prototype and very emotional. Also he too created another whom he considered his child. So I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this idea.

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Row4n412 on Nov 4, 2014 wrote:

It seems we all agree on many aspects of the Armada's spiritual nature. Each of you is closer to my opinion than the last. Please allow me to interject my own theory which is based on Mary Shelly's definition of alchemy in Frankenstein. Alchemy would thus be a combination of scientific and magic technology. The spiral is a universe that obviously works along physical principles different than our own, and we call these principles "magic". The spiral also works along physical principles similar to those by which our universe operates. Let's call these "scientific". Don't worry, I don't really think KI has tapped into an existing universe.
My theory is that somehow, the toymaker who built Kane made him to be a vessel for some powerful spiritual entity other than a disembodied human spirit, instead of a computer operating the clockwork body. This entity commands Kane's body to move and speak, and it powers those actions with its innate magic. Kane in turn created the rest of the elites, probably in secret from the toymaker, using those same principles he learned from his creator or Caligostro. Kane wrought the other elites especially well, but put less-powerful entities than himself inside them. Kane wrought the rest of his Armada clockworks less carefully, but put a third tier of mid-capable entities in the officers' clockwork bodies and an even less capable tier of spirits inside the common corps. Over time, Kane and the other elites have improved their process and designs, creating ever more powerful common corps soldiers, which Kane assigns to the more crucial tasks, We have mostly seen and scrapped the less powerful clockworks because we have been fighting the Armada outside the center of Kane's priorities until Marleybone, and we can expect to see more powerful common corps troops as we get closer to Kane's principal interests. Yes, the Grand Design is even more important to Kane than enslaving Marleybone. I also suspect that the Armada ships are sentient and under Kane's control.
As for the Lady Elite's purpose, I think she is designed to specialize in Public Relations. She is most likely a privateer by class, and Kane needs her to keep the Valencian aristocracy lulled into complacency, believing they are still in charge of the Armada and their world.

The complacency thing? Clearly not. There are troops marching around Valencia and the unicorns have clearly lost control. For example a unicorn whose name I forget (I think he's a librarian) says "they took every book about Marco Pollo. Everything. Even the books about him. You must stop them pirate." So ya. I don't think that's the purpose of the Lady Elite (is that what we're calling her now? Ok then.)

anecorbie on Dec 1, 2014 wrote:

I wasn't saying that they were without emotions, rather that they were without love.

Ok but the entire point of this post is to prove that the Armada has emotions. Still...I do see your point.

jordan35884 on Dec 14, 2014 wrote:

the armada dont have emotions, their ROBOTS. made of gears and wires, how could they possibly cry when they have no heart or anything?

Magic? In a game with voodoo magic it seems quite likely.

Maybe they are powered by windstones or something similar?

Kan The Destroyer on Jan 11, 2015 wrote:

Right, but Blind Mew said that Aragon was an isolated part of Valencia, and that it's the exception; everywhere else, the Armada is seen as the war heroes still and seen as under the Unicorns' control. Sure, they're still crazy everywhere else, but they are only publicly perceived as such there.

Now, on to her role in the Armada. I find the idea of her being 'public relations' a little at odds with the swashbuckler class. However, if her job was truly to keep the Valencian Nobles powerless against them, then it might be good to have a swashbuckler to.....say, slit a few throats? Or at least get rid of (like kidnap) the nobles at odds with the growing armada powers. She would be good at that as a swash.

Ooo, and then we could go rescue said nobles from the wicked Lady Elite! There's a good plot device!

Athena Wisdom God on Jan 15, 2015 wrote:

Well, I'm 75% agree, 25% disagree with this. Yes, Avery said in the puppet show "And they are puppets. The clockworks aren't like you and me. Little men, run on gears. Heartless, soulless, and ruthless." or something like that but Avery seems to be a very annoying person who seems to think he knows everything (seriously, someone should replace him like, hmm...*cough* me *cough*), so we may not know everything about the Armada clockworks. I mean, explain how Rooke and Deacon would be brothers if they were just straight clockworks. They may seem a little caring for each other, or possibly hiding true feelings from us. I know, this is probably not possible, but there is some good evidence that the Armada might have feelings! I'll leave it to the producers to figure this out, possibly a short puppet show explaining how the Armada really are from Kane (right before we destroy him, of course).

Perilous Zoe Nightingale, 24

Since Rook and Deacon are clockworks and not biological beings, they can't be brothers in the way we refer to our brothers ( or sisters ) who share the same parents. But they can be 'brothers' in the sense that they share a single creator ( be that Kane or 'G' ).
We also use the word 'brother/sister' for those who share a similar background or philosophy.

anecorbie on Jan 15, 2015 wrote:

We should not be believing everything Avery tells us as truth, when he says "Heartless, soulless, ruthless" I concede the heartless and ruthless part ( we've seen examples of this everywhere. ) But soulless? If a being has self awareness ( not entirely governed by instinct but rational ) I believe that being may have a soul.
It all remains to be seen in the up coming new book.

Which bring up another point: If a being has intelligence, and self awareness, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that mean they also have emotions? (get it? EMOTicons. I know, I'm hilarious.)

Although when Avery says "Soulless" he could just be referring to the fact that the Armada are cruel.

Dark Gillian Quinc... on Sep 9, 2014 wrote:

Ayy hello everyone!
In here, I'd like to talk about how I personally think the elite armada have hearts too, even if they are mechanical.
First, I'd like to start with Rooke. I mean, we all know he hates our guts. But note how you hear him state Deacon is his brother. There are multiple theories that support that they are related, like that they were once human and though experiment they were part puppet and part human, and Kane was the first of them and gathered people with a similar problem into his elite guard (I'm not so sure about this theory).
ANYWAYS, (i'm so chatty I'll stop the pointless chat) Bishop points out Rooke wants to crush you as revenge for Deacon. AAAaaaAAAhhh. Not just because he's under orders, but you incapacitated his brother. A small observation, but haha //feels.
Moving on, we have Phule. I think he is kind of messed up. Like, after he sent the Servus captains after you, he was like "I am sure we shall meet again." If he KNEW we wouldn't die, why would he leave it at that?? Also, he seems a little happy about the whole us being a thorn in the side to the armada thing. It seems he likes Pirates more than clockworks?? Even his dark side shows no care towards clockworks, only towards El Dorado stuff. Hm. Interesting, huh.
Onto Bishop: I don't really have a whole lot with him, he just kind of mentions Rooke a lot but they are both working together on the war against Marleybone. Back to Rooke, Rooke ALSO seems like he would be the type to care that Bishop's genius plans were foiled and that would be a bit embarrassing being the genius of the armada. Yay another reason to destroy you. My observations are strange.
Finally, Kane and Queen. We know pretty much NOTHING about them. But one theory is that they are married (i'm sure we all think that huh) so is that love or did they just kind of have to or i don't know. But if it's love then hahaha feels.
Just to let you know, i cried my eyes out when i killed Deacon because i felt bad about Rooke just standing there in General Tso's place like "You destoyed Deacon, my brother. I would have thought that, impossible."
But then he doesn't kill you because he's all like "ew you're not worthy to fight me petty human" and that keeps him from avenging his brother at the time he could.
I'm 1000% sure that almost everyone who reads this will disagree with me, but I'm just throwing my silly thoughts into the world because I am studying every last armada concept and NO ONE can stop me!

Dark Gillian Quincy

Wow, I never actually thought that they had feelings. Great point!

---

Anyone wanna come with me to invade Avery's office since he said they have no feelings?

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Katherine, level 65
Insincere Iris, level 53