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Needed PvP changes ASAP

2
AuthorMessage
Admiral
Jul 07, 2013
1124
Fearless Finnagan on Nov 20, 2015 wrote:
Well when it does work I crush you(In the spirit of friendly competition, of course)
But the luck factor keeps it exciting and keeps you guessing.

Virtuous Dante Ramsey
Dread Pirate
Jun 13, 2011
2037
Ratbeard on Nov 9, 2015 wrote:
The timing of updates is out of my hands, but my ears are open in the meantime.

I have some things already in the works, but feel free to post suggestions here.
Well, we can't wait to see what you got cooked up for us Pirates, Ratbeard!
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Trimond297 on Dec 4, 2015 wrote:
Well, we can't wait to see what you got cooked up for us Pirates, Ratbeard!
Be very, very careful what you ask for, Trimond Remember this is the man who brought us the Smuggler's Arena!
Dread Pirate
Jun 13, 2011
2037
anecorbie on Dec 4, 2015 wrote:
Be very, very careful what you ask for, Trimond Remember this is the man who brought us the Smuggler's Arena!
Yeah. I know. Long as what he's got planned for us that will be reasonable enough for us Pirates to go through, I'm sure it will be a blast.
Admiral
Jun 02, 2013
1472
Ratbeard on Nov 9, 2015 wrote:
The timing of updates is out of my hands, but my ears are open in the meantime.

I have some things already in the works, but feel free to post suggestions here.
I have 2 which don't seem so op

My first is improving old scratch so he can be compared to fan and pete etc by

Swapping his purge to dispel for those who don't know what dispel is it's the opposite of purge it removes negative effects, what could this do? Brutal charges can be removed returning accuracy to the withches companions secondly give carcarius a bit more accuracy, I trained accuracy 4 on his talents and carcarius can actually be good! I like the guy but he still misses his readied spell more frequentlythan his other attacks? But regardless here requires a bit more accuracy and thirdly to carcarius one more square of attack range

My second idea is improving mojo blade because one mojo reaver is unlocked witches don't use mojo blade, so I think at max level witches can go to vadima and learn mojo bow, basically swapping mojo blade to a six range attack version of it

Finally fix the damage issue on witchdoctors basic attack, it used to not matter but now with the new epics the damage output matters, I'm tired of doing 112 damage on my readied spell when it coukd be double that, if this was fixed to me this would actually be enough
Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
163
ILY Duncan but let me explain

First off the weakness of Witchdoctor:
Low acc (Doesn't matter because if you use Scorp wand you pretty much will always have a 50/50)
Low strength (Buck units will crit us a lot)
Squishy (We're naturally a squishy class like buckler but w/ out hides)

Now the strengths
Highest IG Will (If we increase this with Will gear and drop moo robe you'll have a base 20% chance to crit js)
Great versatility (We have the most options companion wise to use IG ever then before because we can rush or play defensively with our companions, we can even bring 2 high haste comps like goro and nausica but bring a low 4 haste comp w/ out charge but use our haste boosts to give them an extra epic+enough to rush w/ your 2 other comps)
Finally is our ability to create late game.

I explained this to you via our discord server but Witch is about board control but also about late game. You need to create a situation where you'll win in the long run so let me explain how to fix these weaknesses.

Low Acc, we have the scorp staff plus late game no one would be hitting via chains anyway so this doesn't matter. (I still think scorps are better since they beat the trees 100% of the time in a battle, sometimes w/ out banner even)

Low Strength, since we have low strength we should, naturally, kill off the Buccaneer threats early on. Now while vs Bucks this will normally be 2/3 of there companions at minimum that doesn't matter because if we apply pressure w/ scorpions while rushing them down w/ a Nausica w/ like 3 protection buffs on her the chances they'll get to us safely or have a strategic reason to rush our pirate/squishy units will not come if you apply the correct amount of pressure. Sum it up, focus down your targets and apply pressure so they can't pressure you, take control in this situation.

(1)
Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
163
(2)

Finally, we're a squishy class so lets take a look at how the only other Squishy class normally wins.

Oh ya they rush! The reason Bucklers do so well is because they use there cards to apply PRESSURE, this is a big thing for weak defensive classes to have. As a squishy old Witch you need to understand w/ Scratch we have amazing control+damage output with our different spells. One bombs from our boots will do 1k easily so why not bring 1 bombs minimum, also with Nausica we can rush over whenever w/ a fort and like a 2k absorb, explain to me how they'll break that? Again I like to put myself in the worst situation to figure out how I'll counter it, so vs a Buck this is the easiest way to beat them, pressure. Remember that. We have the stuff to apply pressure you just need to use them in the correct order, take down the threats one by one. Keep the pirate out of tide until after all there minions are dead.

Extra stuff to fix our squishy witchy:

Shroud, I love this because we have so much spell power and w/ scratch as a witch this does soooo much so the recovery can tank us an entire hit from a Buck's chain meaning there full chain of 5 hits pretty much only does the worth of 3-4 most of the time.

Readied Spell, again I use the scorp staff because you really won't find yourself using mana mojo storms and your aoe's usually are for late game (Drains) so I found the scorpions more optimal since they win the board control war in minion vs minion every time.

El Toro to compliment the scorpions is a great way to do it.

Don't feel afraid to rush your Nausica. Nausica is great because she's such a tank. You can legit toss a fort and absorb on her (in that order) and you have yourself a musket who WILL NOT die in a single round to a full team of Bucks. You can probably keep her around via absorb spamming for at minimum 3 rounds if not more!
Admiral
Jun 02, 2013
1472
TechnomagePvP on Jan 2, 2016 wrote:
(2)

Finally, we're a squishy class so lets take a look at how the only other Squishy class normally wins.

Oh ya they rush! The reason Bucklers do so well is because they use there cards to apply PRESSURE, this is a big thing for weak defensive classes to have. As a squishy old Witch you need to understand w/ Scratch we have amazing control+damage output with our different spells. One bombs from our boots will do 1k easily so why not bring 1 bombs minimum, also with Nausica we can rush over whenever w/ a fort and like a 2k absorb, explain to me how they'll break that? Again I like to put myself in the worst situation to figure out how I'll counter it, so vs a Buck this is the easiest way to beat them, pressure. Remember that. We have the stuff to apply pressure you just need to use them in the correct order, take down the threats one by one. Keep the pirate out of tide until after all there minions are dead.

Extra stuff to fix our squishy witchy:

Shroud, I love this because we have so much spell power and w/ scratch as a witch this does soooo much so the recovery can tank us an entire hit from a Buck's chain meaning there full chain of 5 hits pretty much only does the worth of 3-4 most of the time.

Readied Spell, again I use the scorp staff because you really won't find yourself using mana mojo storms and your aoe's usually are for late game (Drains) so I found the scorpions more optimal since they win the board control war in minion vs minion every time.

El Toro to compliment the scorpions is a great way to do it.

Don't feel afraid to rush your Nausica. Nausica is great because she's such a tank. You can legit toss a fort and absorb on her (in that order) and you have yourself a musket who WILL NOT die in a single round to a full team of Bucks. You can probably keep her around via absorb spamming for at minimum 3 rounds if not more!
Sort of requires nautical but it seems ok, nautical costs 30$ 40$ to get and I don't pay to win
Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
TechnomagePvP on Jan 2, 2016 wrote:
ILY Duncan but let me explain

First off the weakness of Witchdoctor:
Low acc (Doesn't matter because if you use Scorp wand you pretty much will always have a 50/50)
Low strength (Buck units will crit us a lot)
Squishy (We're naturally a squishy class like buckler but w/ out hides)

Now the strengths
Highest IG Will (If we increase this with Will gear and drop moo robe you'll have a base 20% chance to crit js)
Great versatility (We have the most options companion wise to use IG ever then before because we can rush or play defensively with our companions, we can even bring 2 high haste comps like goro and nausica but bring a low 4 haste comp w/ out charge but use our haste boosts to give them an extra epic+enough to rush w/ your 2 other comps)
Finally is our ability to create late game.

I explained this to you via our discord server but Witch is about board control but also about late game. You need to create a situation where you'll win in the long run so let me explain how to fix these weaknesses.

Low Acc, we have the scorp staff plus late game no one would be hitting via chains anyway so this doesn't matter. (I still think scorps are better since they beat the trees 100% of the time in a battle, sometimes w/ out banner even)

Low Strength, since we have low strength we should, naturally, kill off the Buccaneer threats early on. Now while vs Bucks this will normally be 2/3 of there companions at minimum that doesn't matter because if we apply pressure w/ scorpions while rushing them down w/ a Nausica w/ like 3 protection buffs on her the chances they'll get to us safely or have a strategic reason to rush our pirate/squishy units will not come if you apply the correct amount of pressure. Sum it up, focus down your targets and apply pressure so they can't pressure you, take control in this situation.

(1)
This is beyond accurate on so many levels now that I see the right wording in front of me. I personally never really thought witchdoctors were in need of any buffs and this post Tech explains a good 95% of what I would say to witchdoctors who are having trouble in pvp.

That said, the key thing that I feel comes from this is understanding YOUR CLASS before questioning it's true potential in pvp. Without that explanation I just read, I still wouldn't have figured out WHY witchdoctors struggle a lot. Playing to your strengths will always benefit you, and your wweaknesses can be guarded by mere board control (positioning) and awareness of risks your opponent would have to take to gain a foot on you.

One part that really stood out to me was "winning the end game". I can confidently say that almost all matches I've done vs witchdoctors, quentin mainly in particular, everytime I left the hall in defeat, it was because my resources had worn thin by the time he was able to kill my last unit (the pirate of course) with the few powers he still had left, even if it was "THAT close".

Not to discredit anyone, but I do believe witchdoctor is more versatile than even the privateer class in terms of "strategy" and "ways to win", but I believe that WD is THAT complex of a class that mastering the voodoo can be done in a stretch of different ways. At the end of it though, it comes down to knowledge of matchups and battling in such a way that works WITH CONSISTENCY to your playstyle.

Just have to applaud Technomage's marvelous post there, brought light to even my eyes.
Petty Officer
Sep 19, 2013
69
Silver Angel on Nov 13, 2015 wrote:
Carcarius yes... he needs improvement, aside from what you said, he also needs range boost.

I could be wrong, but I assume he doesnt get to use his purge magic often... why not make it so that he can MOVE and purge? (only for Carcarius tho, not players eh)

I'm not sure about retribution 3, but I've witnessed retribution 1 in Regatta (from Old Scratch clone) and it seemed to counter whatever came at them... rank 1 might be enough for players. Remember just one can trigger mojo echo/rising etc.

WD players also need Mojo echo rank 2, any other class has access to relentless or burst fire rank 2 thank to trainers and pets. WD have a natural mojo echo, I think it wont hurt the game too much if a trainer can teach another rank.

I like the IMB 3 idea, target an area instead of a unit... but then the 10% damage boost should be removed.
Though I dont know if echo can trigger if you dont target a unit...

Echo and Jobu's ruse hitting 3x3 would be OP I think, Ratbeard already stated IMB and mojo rising are incompatible (on companions) because it would be too strong.
"Echo and Jobu's ruse hitting 3x3 would be OP I think, Ratbeard already stated IMB and mojo rising are incompatible (on companions) because it would be too strong."
Here's the thing... Witchdoctor companions are incredibly weak. They have low accuracy, low dodge, and low health. They NEED a buff, and combining IMB and Mojo Echo would be wise.
However, this still probably won't help in PvP. Witchdoctors have lots of AoE damage, but it's pretty easy to spread out your companions so you can only blast 1 or 2 at a time.
Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
163
witchdoctor daruis on Jan 3, 2016 wrote:
Sort of requires nautical but it seems ok, nautical costs 30$ 40$ to get and I don't pay to win
Nausica* and every class needs Nausica to be successful, in any game, in any meta there will always be "staples" in p101 these staples are companions like her. If you wish not to use her then Witch probably isn't the class you want to play as they require a lot of hard work and $$$ to keep up to date in the meta naturally. I would try Buccaneer if you're into cheap classes that don't require P2W.
Lieutenant
Dec 19, 2011
133
TechnomagePvP on Jan 4, 2016 wrote:
Nausica* and every class needs Nausica to be successful, in any game, in any meta there will always be "staples" in p101 these staples are companions like her. If you wish not to use her then Witch probably isn't the class you want to play as they require a lot of hard work and $$$ to keep up to date in the meta naturally. I would try Buccaneer if you're into cheap classes that don't require P2W.
Nice post technomage. From my experience as a witch, I would just like to add a few comments:

1) I don't think that witches can be compared to swashbucklers in terms of being squishy. Swashbucklers have much higher dodge and can use their melee epics to prevent other melee companions from doing extensive damage to them (of course there are exceptions due to luck)

2) One big disadvantage that WDs have is that its harder for us to buff agility and strength. Muskets can use Chantal, swashbucklers can use Fan, and Buccaneers can use Pete to buff agility or strength. So that makes us prone to getting hit with incredible chains from both strength and agility based companions. I have been killed by Fan in one round when she was not even hidden, and she seems to critical every round against my team in most matches.

But overall, I agree that board control is the key. In my matches, I find that I need to prevent both agility (Fan/Nausica) and strength (Pete, Goro) based companions from reaching me in order to have a chance, at least until I am able to use some shields.

Also, I agree that WDs have a lot of versatility. For example, you mentioned that you do well with the scorpions, but I prefer the trees and the longer range that their wand comes with. Both are good options.
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
TechnomagePvP on Jan 4, 2016 wrote:
Nausica* and every class needs Nausica to be successful, in any game, in any meta there will always be "staples" in p101 these staples are companions like her. If you wish not to use her then Witch probably isn't the class you want to play as they require a lot of hard work and $$$ to keep up to date in the meta naturally. I would try Buccaneer if you're into cheap classes that don't require P2W.
Is Nausica really that necessary? Unless I've managed to pull the VF card from my powers and apply it to her, she goes down too quickly. I've also beaten players who are using Nausica, Baar & Goro ( these seem to be the top "necessary to win" companions ). A skillful, knowledgeable competitor can beat a P2W player even with in-game companions.
The fact is you could pour money into PVP for companions or gear and still not win over a skillful player. It takes knowledge ( of your class and I believe you must have at least a basic knowledge of other classes and their skills as well ) in order to form a strategy when going into PVP competition.
Its not always companions or gear that wins a match but being prepared and anticipating certain strategies used by classes ( it also needs that bit of luck in the draw of the correct cards at the right time ).
Admiral
Jun 02, 2013
1472
TechnomagePvP on Jan 4, 2016 wrote:
Nausica* and every class needs Nausica to be successful, in any game, in any meta there will always be "staples" in p101 these staples are companions like her. If you wish not to use her then Witch probably isn't the class you want to play as they require a lot of hard work and $$$ to keep up to date in the meta naturally. I would try Buccaneer if you're into cheap classes that don't require P2W.
Dw I just swapped her out with toro and in certain situations it works better than nausica, it's always possible to spend no money in game, I will never the best because of this but I can feel good about myself with a good accomplishment and I can look weaker then what people think and it's unqiue
Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
163
anecorbie on Jan 4, 2016 wrote:
Is Nausica really that necessary? Unless I've managed to pull the VF card from my powers and apply it to her, she goes down too quickly. I've also beaten players who are using Nausica, Baar & Goro ( these seem to be the top "necessary to win" companions ). A skillful, knowledgeable competitor can beat a P2W player even with in-game companions.
The fact is you could pour money into PVP for companions or gear and still not win over a skillful player. It takes knowledge ( of your class and I believe you must have at least a basic knowledge of other classes and their skills as well ) in order to form a strategy when going into PVP competition.
Its not always companions or gear that wins a match but being prepared and anticipating certain strategies used by classes ( it also needs that bit of luck in the draw of the correct cards at the right time ).
Great so you can tell that Nausica by herself counters herself and multiple other threats in the current meta so to anticipate those strategies with 1 unit can fill in a lot of holes a class/team may have to create a strong core. Anticipation means making a core and win condition in your set for anything and everything which for me seemed to be El Toro to win minion wars, scorpions to overcome Trees mixed with toro to beat any minion control war, Scratch for offense and defensive options early on and mid/late game, then Nausica to wrap it up with the fact that most of my companions so far have been for solely support purposes we need at least 1 very top tier powerful companion who can spike damage and so happens shuts muskets down completely and counters her oh so common self which as a Witch stated before by me many times, we can make her even more OP through our haste+epic enhancement power with other protections. Also you should always be able to have your powers when you want them, my play style revolves around Nausica+board control so I obviously set my powers to do this properly. I'll always have either that VF or VA to protect her and my bombs to deal dmg, etc.

The way I explained this may have been unclear, Witch are board control style that revolves around being able to deal big spike damage from a distance to prepare for late game while you apply pressure via minions and obviously you could use other companions in Nausica's place she's just by far and this isn't even up for question, the best for board clearing quickly. With 3 criticals (And having double tap 1, burst 2, true grit 2 to just shut everything and anything down) and high haste she can do it better then anyone else. So no Nausica isn't a MUST, you can fill it in with someone who can do the same, she's just the most effective. But I would highly suggest if you want to play Witch you understand that they do have a lot of maintenance costs to use them at the highest possible results.
Admiral
Jun 02, 2013
1472
By using toro over nausica I can save myself from reckless frenzy and ultimately keep myself alive, why? First off I have bought the smugglers boots which give elusive for bonus dodge, then with el toro's buff I gain 30+ dodge and I am aiming to get grant elusive off of my pet I don't know how much dodge hat is but even at elusive one with my new boots I have been doing better than before
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