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Class imbalances

AuthorMessage
Community Leader
After reaching level 50 on my Witchdoctor I've wanted to try PvP.

Some things I've noticed in my matches -

When Im facing musketeers, they use their bomb traps and other traps to surround people. My question is why do AOE's not destroy them? Also why can Musketeer's and their companions walk through there traps? It should effect them just like it does us if they walk through it.

Again with musketeers - I was in a match and they used a metal shield infront of me so I couldn't use my ranged spells against them. But he could shoot his gun through it? How does that make sense?

Walk in the shadows swash talent - Someone uses it and the other team can easily use an aoe that targets the "hidden" unit and the hidden is ruined. When a unit is hidden no attack should interupt it untill they attack imo. Also when someone uses it the other team should not beable to see the unit on the field. (It should be invisible to their battle board)

Valor's Armor - Was facing a Musketeer last night and we both had ourselves and Bonnie Anne's left. I was about to go in and finish him with mojo blade and he used Valors Armor [Which is a privateer only spell that he had 2 of them from a drop from Johnny Ringo] It absorbs x5 hits.... If you ask me that is way to OP and should be restricted to PRIV only.. Class only spells/talents should be exactly that.

El Toro - Right now in PvP almost everyone feels like they have to use a slot for El Toro for his OP buff. If you dont use him you are giving the other team the upperhand. Will any other companions learn his buff or is it only for him?

Thats about all the questions I have for experiencing PvP .
Johnny - Pirate101 Community Leader
Bosun
May 06, 2009
371
Pirates o the Spir... on Feb 17, 2013 wrote:
After reaching level 50 on my Witchdoctor I've wanted to try PvP.

Some things I've noticed in my matches -

When Im facing musketeers, they use their bomb traps and other traps to surround people. My question is why do AOE's not destroy them? Also why can Musketeer's and their companions walk through there traps? It should effect them just like it does us if they walk through it.

Again with musketeers - I was in a match and they used a metal shield infront of me so I couldn't use my ranged spells against them. But he could shoot his gun through it? How does that make sense?

Walk in the shadows swash talent - Someone uses it and the other team can easily use an aoe that targets the "hidden" unit and the hidden is ruined. When a unit is hidden no attack should interupt it untill they attack imo. Also when someone uses it the other team should not beable to see the unit on the field. (It should be invisible to their battle board)

Valor's Armor - Was facing a Musketeer last night and we both had ourselves and Bonnie Anne's left. I was about to go in and finish him with mojo blade and he used Valors Armor [Which is a privateer only spell that he had 2 of them from a drop from Johnny Ringo] It absorbs x5 hits.... If you ask me that is way to OP and should be restricted to PRIV only.. Class only spells/talents should be exactly that.

El Toro - Right now in PvP almost everyone feels like they have to use a slot for El Toro for his OP buff. If you dont use him you are giving the other team the upperhand. Will any other companions learn his buff or is it only for him?

Thats about all the questions I have for experiencing PvP .
Somethings, well most things, I disagree with on your post.

-You completely through me off with your first major topic: Musketeer's should be hit by there on traps? So you're trying to inspire more game suicides, have ye? Musketeers can walk through own traps because that is their own trap. That is, their traps are like their ally that is going to effect their enemy. They will not destruct on there ally. It sounds like if you made yourself a Musketeer, you would want your trap to hit yourself when in a fight with mob. This will lead to certain lose. Also the traps do not possess health so they can be destroyed. Best thing to do is avoid them if possible.

-They already addressed the deal with Walk in Shadows and Hide in Darkness. In a regular battle, yes, you would be hidden and unseen. In PvP, this would not happen. Players will see you as to not gain any unfair advantages. These moves are like blades in Wizard101. It allows you to power your next Power. The card itself says that the affect with end if you are hit or if the rounds run out. It's just how it is.

-Many moves have from the clases have been added to gear. I'm not a PvPer so I'm not really upset about this and I think this helps in PvE. Please, don't get mad if Player gets lucky or has the advantage of getting a move from an outfit that could lead to there victory because if we reverse this situation, I'm sure you would like to keep the move from the outfit you have. In PvP, you're doing very thing for your victory.

-El Toro, I guess, is like the deal with Crowns and Henchmen on Wizard101. He's so powerful, he's universally like or advised. I sure there will be other Companions with is ability. In fact, there already is, Itzen (Eat-zen. lol some times I think people pronounce his name It-zen) Kaan. Itzen is the Ptera from the Tribal Crew Pack and at his final promotion I think he can get Battle Zeal which is stronger than El Toro's Espre de Corps. You can try for him, but I don't think it's worth it unless you're seriously hooked on PvP
Bosun
May 06, 2009
371
Pirates o the Spir... on Feb 17, 2013 wrote:
After reaching level 50 on my Witchdoctor I've wanted to try PvP.

Some things I've noticed in my matches -

When Im facing musketeers, they use their bomb traps and other traps to surround people. My question is why do AOE's not destroy them? Also why can Musketeer's and their companions walk through there traps? It should effect them just like it does us if they walk through it.

Again with musketeers - I was in a match and they used a metal shield infront of me so I couldn't use my ranged spells against them. But he could shoot his gun through it? How does that make sense?

Walk in the shadows swash talent - Someone uses it and the other team can easily use an aoe that targets the "hidden" unit and the hidden is ruined. When a unit is hidden no attack should interupt it untill they attack imo. Also when someone uses it the other team should not beable to see the unit on the field. (It should be invisible to their battle board)

Valor's Armor - Was facing a Musketeer last night and we both had ourselves and Bonnie Anne's left. I was about to go in and finish him with mojo blade and he used Valors Armor [Which is a privateer only spell that he had 2 of them from a drop from Johnny Ringo] It absorbs x5 hits.... If you ask me that is way to OP and should be restricted to PRIV only.. Class only spells/talents should be exactly that.

El Toro - Right now in PvP almost everyone feels like they have to use a slot for El Toro for his OP buff. If you dont use him you are giving the other team the upperhand. Will any other companions learn his buff or is it only for him?

Thats about all the questions I have for experiencing PvP .
One more thing! With this new update, Bonnie Ann has become more powerful with her own heal so if she is used in PvP, expect a better advantage for yourself or a harder challenge!
Ensign
Feb 25, 2012
14
I can explain the logic behind one of your issues and attempt to do so with another:

1. The idea behind traps is that an enemy doesn't know where it is, and therefor hits it. People on your side know it's there and would make a point of stepping around. Indeed, the only issue with traps isn't who can set them off, but rather that opponents shouldn't be able to see them in the first place.

2. I have never seen this metal barricade you speak of, as I have never used that ability, but I can guess as to why they could still shoot you. Either he used an ability and targeted a square next to you, or, perchance, did the barricade have a hole in it? In the real world they do have such barricades specifically designed so that defenders can shoot through them.

Also, I recall that privateers can get El Toro's ability.

I do have to agree with you on the stealth ability. I know I have annoyed several people by shooting them right after they used it, and it doesn't match the idea that I'm not supposed to know where they are. I also want to add, when I say enemies shouldn't be able to see traps or stealthed opponents, I don't just mean on the battle planner. I mean to say that they should just plain be invisible to the other persons camera.
Community Leader
My Witchdoctor has both a charm, and a ring that gives him Valors Armor.
My Buccaneer has a robe that gives it.
My Swashbuckler has a hat that gives it.

There is probably gear alredy offering this to all classes.
Dr Zeppers (aka Silent Sam Stern)
Piratey parodies I like to make.
I be a crazy pirate for goodness sake!
Artist & Admin of Skull Island TV
Bosun
Dec 21, 2009
396
Pirates o the Spir... on Feb 17, 2013 wrote:
After reaching level 50 on my Witchdoctor I've wanted to try PvP.

Some things I've noticed in my matches -

When Im facing musketeers, they use their bomb traps and other traps to surround people. My question is why do AOE's not destroy them? Also why can Musketeer's and their companions walk through there traps? It should effect them just like it does us if they walk through it.

Again with musketeers - I was in a match and they used a metal shield infront of me so I couldn't use my ranged spells against them. But he could shoot his gun through it? How does that make sense?

Walk in the shadows swash talent - Someone uses it and the other team can easily use an aoe that targets the "hidden" unit and the hidden is ruined. When a unit is hidden no attack should interupt it untill they attack imo. Also when someone uses it the other team should not beable to see the unit on the field. (It should be invisible to their battle board)

Valor's Armor - Was facing a Musketeer last night and we both had ourselves and Bonnie Anne's left. I was about to go in and finish him with mojo blade and he used Valors Armor [Which is a privateer only spell that he had 2 of them from a drop from Johnny Ringo] It absorbs x5 hits.... If you ask me that is way to OP and should be restricted to PRIV only.. Class only spells/talents should be exactly that.

El Toro - Right now in PvP almost everyone feels like they have to use a slot for El Toro for his OP buff. If you dont use him you are giving the other team the upperhand. Will any other companions learn his buff or is it only for him?

Thats about all the questions I have for experiencing PvP .
I agree on valor's armor because all classes have to keep some secrets no? And a explanation for the metal shield thingy that musketeers have, I think they are a little invisible to you with certain effects if you built them; and the traps, I'm a privateer lvl 50 and i walk through my own traps, the traps will not damage you or allies ok?


See you in the game!
Lieutenant
Dec 18, 2012
187
Regardin El Toro, if it was not so much useful as he is i would lovle to wipe him from my companion board since he is too much loudy for my tastes and take too much in animations , prolly they could make El Toro like a TV advertisement (like the one wich would interrupt a football match in critical moments) that ppl would continue to use it because it is really useful lol .

Anytime! I would prefer in pvp that Shadow walk moves would be able to completely hide a player/companion, this because in all mmorpgs an invisibility in pvp works as an invisibility and it is not unfair since usually it is compensated by other talents (example: someone pop a shadow walk, someone else could use a valor shield/deploy mortar shells, buidl a barrier with companions, etc.), it is already easy to interrupt an invisibility since is sufficent to know where was the last location of that player, at least making it to work after the first turn seems fair.

About musketeers, it is fine as it is since their skill already do low damage, if you wipe the strategic advantage of them like making bombs to explode at musketeer passage this class with so much "sooner or later" useless low damage aoe would be weaker at end, just remember that musketeers don't have so much passives so they rely almost only on their active spells.
Ensign
Sep 14, 2011
20
Dr Zeppers on Feb 17, 2013 wrote:
My Witchdoctor has both a charm, and a ring that gives him Valors Armor.
My Buccaneer has a robe that gives it.
My Swashbuckler has a hat that gives it.

There is probably gear alredy offering this to all classes.
my musketeer has an amulet for it
my witchdoctor has boots for it
Petty Officer
Dec 26, 2012
54
As a Musketeer, I disagree that they should be hit by their own traps. I mean if the whole battlefield is surrounded by them how will they escape? Also the barrier thing is hardly a issue, obstacles that you can't get rid of are annoying since you have to move, losing a turn.

Valor's armor can be found in a amulet for all classes, so thats fair.

Hidden can easily stopped by slowing down the Swashbuckler with a Witchdoctor spell. Also Musketeers (i'm not sure if works with all specials) can get rid of hidden by using most specials to attack them. Its boosting their attack for more power.

To be honest I hardly use El toro in PVP since he can't take too many hits, especially in a gun fight. His buff is useful and he's strong. But against a Musketeer or Witchdoctor, he's as good as dead. (Unless he has a dodge boost)
Lieutenant
Jul 09, 2009
151
Pirates o the Spir... on Feb 17, 2013 wrote:
After reaching level 50 on my Witchdoctor I've wanted to try PvP.

Some things I've noticed in my matches -

When Im facing musketeers, they use their bomb traps and other traps to surround people. My question is why do AOE's not destroy them? Also why can Musketeer's and their companions walk through there traps? It should effect them just like it does us if they walk through it.

Again with musketeers - I was in a match and they used a metal shield infront of me so I couldn't use my ranged spells against them. But he could shoot his gun through it? How does that make sense?

Walk in the shadows swash talent - Someone uses it and the other team can easily use an aoe that targets the "hidden" unit and the hidden is ruined. When a unit is hidden no attack should interupt it untill they attack imo. Also when someone uses it the other team should not beable to see the unit on the field. (It should be invisible to their battle board)

Valor's Armor - Was facing a Musketeer last night and we both had ourselves and Bonnie Anne's left. I was about to go in and finish him with mojo blade and he used Valors Armor [Which is a privateer only spell that he had 2 of them from a drop from Johnny Ringo] It absorbs x5 hits.... If you ask me that is way to OP and should be restricted to PRIV only.. Class only spells/talents should be exactly that.

El Toro - Right now in PvP almost everyone feels like they have to use a slot for El Toro for his OP buff. If you dont use him you are giving the other team the upperhand. Will any other companions learn his buff or is it only for him?

Thats about all the questions I have for experiencing PvP .
After reaching level 50 on my Witchdoctor I've wanted to try PvP.

Some things I've noticed in my matches -

When Im facing musketeers, they use their bomb traps and other traps to surround people. My question is why do AOE's not destroy them? Also why can Musketeer's and their companions walk through there traps? It should effect them just like it does us if they walk through it.


No. The bombs are meant to hurt enemies only not hurt us, nor our allies should we walk through them. How would that be fair?

Again with musketeers - I was in a match and they used a metal shield infront of me so I couldn't use my ranged spells against them. But he could shoot his gun through it? How does that make sense?

That's our version of a shield and it's a defensive play-style. We're able to shoot through our barricade, but it protects us from outside attacks.

Walk in the shadows swash talent - Someone uses it and the other team can easily use an aoe that targets the "hidden" unit and the hidden is ruined. When a unit is hidden no attack should interupt it untill they attack imo. Also when someone uses it the other team should not beable to see the unit on the field. (It should be invisible to their battle board)

That'd make the power extremely OP. The point of the hide powers are to evade and strike. AoEs (Areas of Effect) should remove it. How is it fair to make someone literally invisible for a full 3-5 turns and before you bring up Valor's Armor that can be broken if you focus your attack on it.

Valor's Armor - Was facing a Musketeer last night and we both had ourselves and Bonnie Anne's left. I was about to go in and finish him with mojo blade and he used Valors Armor [Which is a privateer only spell that he had 2 of them from a drop from Johnny Ringo] It absorbs x5 hits.... If you ask me that is way to OP and should be restricted to PRIV only.. Class only spells/talents should be exactly that.

You know Witchdoctors can get three, and I'll say it again, three Valor's Armor cards. If that were the case then a majority of the gear people use now would be useless. Ki would have a lot of angry players. Anyways in most tournament matches if you choose to play them, Valor's Armor is restricted to Privateers only and only one can be used per battle.

El Toro - Right now in PvP almost everyone feels like they have to use a slot for El Toro for his OP buff. If you dont use him you are giving the other team the upperhand. Will any other companions learn his buff or is it only for him?

If Wing Chun or Itzen Kaan (Ptero Dino) promote again they will both receive Espirit De Corps. It's not OP, because everyone has a chance of getting El Toro.

Before saying things are "OP" or unfair, try revising your strategy and see the flaws in it. You'll see a big change in your matches if you do.

Thats about all the questions I have for experiencing PvP .
Comments in bold.


Lucas Walker Sky Commander Musketeer
Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
838
They're is a serious flaw in your argument about musketeers, if you use the practice points to get ranged attacks from other classes, i can go about 6 turns with just ranged dealing about 2000 damage which is a lot for a lvl 25, that is usually enough to take out 2 or 3 companions, traps don't mean much if they're is no one to gaurd the spaces in between them.

Robert lvl 25 privateer () ()
(>.<)
C (") (")
Captain
Oct 15, 2012
538
its like gravel pit from tf2(sorry i just had to throw a joke in here)
Petty Officer
Jun 09, 2009
98
I think swashbucklers are underpowered because of this..
THEY CANNONT SURVIVE LONG ENOUGH

I'm a swashbuckler and swashbucklers are un-able to get the card Valor's Shield (either that or it's so rare harldy anyone in the spiral has it). It's also unfair for Privateers to get special swashbuckler gear (such as assassin's strike) because it's mainly what swashbucklers are known for. Most swashbuckler drops I get are from the Witchdoctor class and the swashbuckler class. Our walk in darkness and whatnot is like our only thing that protects us from enemies (and our high dodge rate), but we're still under powered. I'm really sad and angry that Privateers can use our spells, but we can't use theirs. It's why swashbucklers almost always never win.
Bosun
Apr 19, 2012
331
Aye lad. I started this game as a Swashbuckler before there was pvp. I thought that when they did get pvp Swashbucklers would be the class everyone feared to face however this is not so. Musketeers clearly have an advantage in pvp with Privateers close behind them. I realized this after battling several Musketeer friends and losing. These are players that I have had to rescue many times during their quests. We would face enemies together and they would be almost defeated and my Swashbuckler still at almost full health. While I believe that Swashbucklers are by far the best class for questing...alas...we are almost the worst for pvp. I love this game but I am disheartened by the fact that Swashbucklers do so poorly in pvp and am also not real happy with the fact that so many of our "bread and butter" abilities are available to other classes while all that we get from the other classes is junk. I do not think that Assassins Strike or Walk In Shadows should be available to other classes with training points or as drops. Consequently I started a Musketeer and am building it just for pvp but Swashbucklers are still my favorite. It's not impossible to succeed at pvp with them...just very difficult. An average Musketeer will beat a really good Swashbuckler almost every time.

Wicked Erin, Self Appointed Unlimited Class World Swashbuckling Champion Supreme
Ensign
Dec 05, 2009
13
Pirates o the Spir... on Feb 17, 2013 wrote:
After reaching level 50 on my Witchdoctor I've wanted to try PvP.

Some things I've noticed in my matches -

When Im facing musketeers, they use their bomb traps and other traps to surround people. My question is why do AOE's not destroy them? Also why can Musketeer's and their companions walk through there traps? It should effect them just like it does us if they walk through it.

Again with musketeers - I was in a match and they used a metal shield infront of me so I couldn't use my ranged spells against them. But he could shoot his gun through it? How does that make sense?

Walk in the shadows swash talent - Someone uses it and the other team can easily use an aoe that targets the "hidden" unit and the hidden is ruined. When a unit is hidden no attack should interupt it untill they attack imo. Also when someone uses it the other team should not beable to see the unit on the field. (It should be invisible to their battle board)

Valor's Armor - Was facing a Musketeer last night and we both had ourselves and Bonnie Anne's left. I was about to go in and finish him with mojo blade and he used Valors Armor [Which is a privateer only spell that he had 2 of them from a drop from Johnny Ringo] It absorbs x5 hits.... If you ask me that is way to OP and should be restricted to PRIV only.. Class only spells/talents should be exactly that.

El Toro - Right now in PvP almost everyone feels like they have to use a slot for El Toro for his OP buff. If you dont use him you are giving the other team the upperhand. Will any other companions learn his buff or is it only for him?

Thats about all the questions I have for experiencing PvP .
My good sir, you are very wrong. These are not imbalances as each school has things to give them edges over other schools. I myself am a witchdoctor and can easily beat other schools, yes that includes musketeers. You just have not learned how to pvp, it takes practice, rather than suggesting a nerf on the schools every time you lose a fight. This is why we cannot keep good spells because people cry about it every time something does not go their way, which pressures game makers to nerf.
Bosun
Apr 19, 2012
331
I'm afraid I would have to disagree with you. A good musketeer will beat a good witchdoctor almost all of the time. In fact a good musketeer has little to fear in pvp from the other classes except for privateers who also do very well in pvp. These two classes, musketeer and privateer, have a distinct advantage in pvp. Almost all of the musketeers attacks are multi attacks that can deal heavy damage to several targets at once. Also approaching a musketeer is difficult with a non ranged pirate and they usually can hit you several times before you can get to them. Privateers are able to buff their whole team. I have swashbuckler, a witchdoctor and a musketeer and the musketeer is the one I would choose to pvp with. Of course strategy plays a part that's why I say a "good" musketeer would beat a "good" player of a different class. This is assuming that they both are pvp veterans and have developed good strategies for their class. There are a few variations regarding the types of talents and powers one learns from the other class trainers or picks up as drops from bosses but if you watch lots of pvp there isn't really much difference in strategy from one good player of any class to the next. There is pretty much a basic "recipe" for success that all good pvp players use within a class. Also now that musketeers have the Dragoon weapon available to them as a drop...watch out. Coupled with Walk In Shadows and the card that comes with that weapon they can do around 2,400 damage. That's a big bite out of any enemy and hard to come back from. I have known some witchdoctors that do very well in pvp though...until they run into a musketeer that knows what they are doing.

Wicked Erin, Self Appointed Unlimited Class World Swashbuckling Champion Supreme
Lieutenant
May 24, 2009
160
Doom Pirate on Jun 16, 2013 wrote:
My good sir, you are very wrong. These are not imbalances as each school has things to give them edges over other schools. I myself am a witchdoctor and can easily beat other schools, yes that includes musketeers. You just have not learned how to pvp, it takes practice, rather than suggesting a nerf on the schools every time you lose a fight. This is why we cannot keep good spells because people cry about it every time something does not go their way, which pressures game makers to nerf.
I completely agree. No one is automatically perfect at anything! Just keep trying. I love Valors Shield. Makes up for our weak Offense.

Have a Great Day! Lvl 65
Ensign
May 07, 2011
10
The only problem I can see with musketeers is a certain team:

Musketeer
Zeena
Louis/Pepe
Gracie.

These guys all have traps.
If you surround yourself with traps at a certain distance, well, nobody can do anything.
It'll be a stalemate and as soon as somebody gets close, they all attack the intruder.

And yes, I am a Musketeer.