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Idea to make the game more interactive

AuthorMessage
Petty Officer
Mar 29, 2012
87
Hi there Pirates

x put a big can with yum on the table x

Be sure to get a class of yum and take a seat, then will I tell you all a idea that I will love to see added to the game .

I hope you guys remember the quest from Catbeard in port regal that you need to "kidnap" the Governor's Daughter, yes? great!, well, on a specific moment in that quest Bonnie Anne tells us that she don't like this and if there is a possible way to stop this, Ratbeard on the other hand, loves it and say us to continue, well here is my idea.

Is it not an option to let us choose what to do?, continue or turn back to Catbeard and ask what else we can do, so that we don't need to take the Governor's Daughter?, I know it is hard to change the storyline that is already online but maybe is there an option to add it to the future storyline, and then a couple of this yes or no options.

this means of course more work for the KI team, you need to have 2 quests then instead of 1, one for the continue and one for the turn back give me another option quest, but I will love it if there is a possible way to add it, you can control the game a little bit more then

I hope you all like this and give me some feedback please

See ye all in the spiral

Blaze
Captain
Oct 26, 2012
524
Blaze Carter on Dec 3, 2013 wrote:
Hi there Pirates

x put a big can with yum on the table x

Be sure to get a class of yum and take a seat, then will I tell you all a idea that I will love to see added to the game .

I hope you guys remember the quest from Catbeard in port regal that you need to "kidnap" the Governor's Daughter, yes? great!, well, on a specific moment in that quest Bonnie Anne tells us that she don't like this and if there is a possible way to stop this, Ratbeard on the other hand, loves it and say us to continue, well here is my idea.

Is it not an option to let us choose what to do?, continue or turn back to Catbeard and ask what else we can do, so that we don't need to take the Governor's Daughter?, I know it is hard to change the storyline that is already online but maybe is there an option to add it to the future storyline, and then a couple of this yes or no options.

this means of course more work for the KI team, you need to have 2 quests then instead of 1, one for the continue and one for the turn back give me another option quest, but I will love it if there is a possible way to add it, you can control the game a little bit more then

I hope you all like this and give me some feedback please

See ye all in the spiral

Blaze
I love your yes or no options that decide our storyline. It kind of reminds me of that series I read a while ago called "choose your own adventure". But I dont think that they can alter the storyline just like that. Events such as these lead players to MarleyBone. On the other hand maybe some minor descions (eg "do you want to trek the mountain captain, or go through the cave?") maybe be possible in future areas
First Mate
Dec 12, 2011
422
Blaze Carter on Dec 3, 2013 wrote:
Hi there Pirates

x put a big can with yum on the table x

Be sure to get a class of yum and take a seat, then will I tell you all a idea that I will love to see added to the game .

I hope you guys remember the quest from Catbeard in port regal that you need to "kidnap" the Governor's Daughter, yes? great!, well, on a specific moment in that quest Bonnie Anne tells us that she don't like this and if there is a possible way to stop this, Ratbeard on the other hand, loves it and say us to continue, well here is my idea.

Is it not an option to let us choose what to do?, continue or turn back to Catbeard and ask what else we can do, so that we don't need to take the Governor's Daughter?, I know it is hard to change the storyline that is already online but maybe is there an option to add it to the future storyline, and then a couple of this yes or no options.

this means of course more work for the KI team, you need to have 2 quests then instead of 1, one for the continue and one for the turn back give me another option quest, but I will love it if there is a possible way to add it, you can control the game a little bit more then

I hope you all like this and give me some feedback please

See ye all in the spiral

Blaze
But what if you decide NOT to do the first quest, try to do the other, but decide that you should had done the first one after all? Or what if you're questing with friends and they accidentally click on the wrong option and now y'all have to split ways because your quest is on one side of the island while theirs is on the other..? Wouldn't that also alter the story line a little to where new dialogue and effects has to be added and they both have to fit into the same story somehow...? That'll be like 2 extra pieces for the same puzzle...

I apologize... I don't mean to be difficult, my friend, but before KI could even begin to add these features, they'll need to ask themselves and answer similar questions... and also many more as far as the plot goes...
Petty Officer
Mar 29, 2012
87
Bloody Belle on Dec 4, 2013 wrote:
But what if you decide NOT to do the first quest, try to do the other, but decide that you should had done the first one after all? Or what if you're questing with friends and they accidentally click on the wrong option and now y'all have to split ways because your quest is on one side of the island while theirs is on the other..? Wouldn't that also alter the story line a little to where new dialogue and effects has to be added and they both have to fit into the same story somehow...? That'll be like 2 extra pieces for the same puzzle...

I apologize... I don't mean to be difficult, my friend, but before KI could even begin to add these features, they'll need to ask themselves and answer similar questions... and also many more as far as the plot goes...
Hi,

hmm, you have some really good points, the first one is hard to find a solution for but the second one is maybe easy to take down, with a pop up when you choose go further or go back that says, are ye sure?, if you then by mistake press continue can you press no, and choose the other one, it will be awesome if this get in the game someday, but that will take time, before it really works out good.

and don't apologize yourself, I thank you for your feedback, same counts for the Golden Guardian, thanks both for your posts

Blaze
Bosun
Oct 15, 2012
364
i dont think KI will do it. its too much trouble and they need to focus on bringing new content. this would take too long. furthermore many have already passed that part, and they cant go back and redo it unless they make a new account and subscribe it to.

its not a bad idea, but i think the pirate101 staff is already dealing with more than they can handle, or maybe something like that is the reason they take so long to update.
Bosun
Oct 15, 2012
364
considering** nice new back ground Ki
Ensign
Feb 12, 2013
7
I like the idea of choices and they could easily just join back together to the main storyline. The simplest version of this would be something along the lines of being told:

"I need 6 Polarian Dragoon Widgets, you can get them from the Dragoons on the Isle of Svalbard or from the Dragoon Frigates in the Polarian Skyway"

That way you would have the choice of obtaining the items either by sea battles or land battles (or even a mixture of the two).

Something more complicated could be done for example, if Bonnie raises concerns as soon as Catbeard asks us to kidnap Mabel then you are given the choice of Ask Catbeard if the is another way or Find the secret entrance to the Governor's mansion. If you speak to Catbeard again he might say "Well I suppose steeling the Governor's Victoria Medal would have the same effect"

Changing our mind could easily be dealt with by using the same mechanism for quests where you need to collect several different items. If you press "Q" the quest has an arrow on it clicking on that switches you from it directly you along one storyline or the other. The alternative disappears when you have returned back to single quest line (in this example when you return to Catbeard with either Mabel or the Victoria Medal).
Captain
Jan 26, 2012
646
Blaze Carter on Dec 3, 2013 wrote:
Hi there Pirates

x put a big can with yum on the table x

Be sure to get a class of yum and take a seat, then will I tell you all a idea that I will love to see added to the game .

I hope you guys remember the quest from Catbeard in port regal that you need to "kidnap" the Governor's Daughter, yes? great!, well, on a specific moment in that quest Bonnie Anne tells us that she don't like this and if there is a possible way to stop this, Ratbeard on the other hand, loves it and say us to continue, well here is my idea.

Is it not an option to let us choose what to do?, continue or turn back to Catbeard and ask what else we can do, so that we don't need to take the Governor's Daughter?, I know it is hard to change the storyline that is already online but maybe is there an option to add it to the future storyline, and then a couple of this yes or no options.

this means of course more work for the KI team, you need to have 2 quests then instead of 1, one for the continue and one for the turn back give me another option quest, but I will love it if there is a possible way to add it, you can control the game a little bit more then

I hope you all like this and give me some feedback please

See ye all in the spiral

Blaze
An interesting idea - it's come up before (specifically in discussions of a certain troubling sacrifice the PC makes in Aquila), and I talked about it then, but I'm happy to talk a little more about it.

I love games where this kind of thing happens - the stories are richer because of it. That said, there's a big reason you tend to see branching stories in single player games more than in MMOs: they're very hard to carry off in a shared world, massively multiplayer kind of environment.

There's a certain MMO set in a galaxy far, far away that has lots of choices built into its quests, and they do it really well. But take note that most of their choices are in dialogue options - the only time players can affect quest outcomes or plot points is in side quests, not the main story (we will explore why that might be soon). Also, bear in mind they also had 10 times as many full time writers as we did.

When I joined KI and went to work on Pirate, the first discussions we had were about what we could do to beef up the story in the game. Wizard101 has always been praised for the strength of its story (and rightly so!), and from the very beginning we thought very hard about how Pirate could go even farther. Things like the puppet shows came out of those talks, as well as allowing ourselves to have some chattier moments when the plot required. We also made a very deliberate decision to take some risks, and bring in some darker elements - the war between Valencia and Marleybone (born of that fateful kidnapping) is the biggest example. We talked about introducing choice and having branching quests and choice driven plot points - and we ultimately decided not to do that. There are a bunch of reasons.

Okay, I'm gonna slip on my gamedev hat here and wander far afield - brace for long answer!

Before we even get to the question of should we do it, the first consideration is could we do it? The answer: not really. To set up branching quests that felt like they have real consequences would have required some new tech and changes to the quest system (which we inherited from Wizard), and given what we wanted to do with combat and ships, we had better tasks for our programmers. So, from the get go, we passed on the opportunity.

But even if we could have, would we have?

To be continued.

To be continued...
Captain
Jan 26, 2012
646
Blaze Carter on Dec 3, 2013 wrote:
Hi there Pirates

x put a big can with yum on the table x

Be sure to get a class of yum and take a seat, then will I tell you all a idea that I will love to see added to the game .

I hope you guys remember the quest from Catbeard in port regal that you need to "kidnap" the Governor's Daughter, yes? great!, well, on a specific moment in that quest Bonnie Anne tells us that she don't like this and if there is a possible way to stop this, Ratbeard on the other hand, loves it and say us to continue, well here is my idea.

Is it not an option to let us choose what to do?, continue or turn back to Catbeard and ask what else we can do, so that we don't need to take the Governor's Daughter?, I know it is hard to change the storyline that is already online but maybe is there an option to add it to the future storyline, and then a couple of this yes or no options.

this means of course more work for the KI team, you need to have 2 quests then instead of 1, one for the continue and one for the turn back give me another option quest, but I will love it if there is a possible way to add it, you can control the game a little bit more then

I hope you all like this and give me some feedback please

See ye all in the spiral

Blaze
PART 2

It wasn't really feasible from a tech standpoint for us to bring in branched quest chains into Pirate101. We could have fought to get it in, but we decided not to. Would it have been worth it?

Again, I say no. There are a bunch of factors at play here, some of them very subjective. Let me try to explain how I reached my decision (and why I'm happy with it).

To frame the discussion, let's take as an example the event this thread was built on: the kidnapping of Mabel in Book 8. To set up a branching plot, we would need to create two encounters - the raid on Governor Stanley's House and something else - let's go with he Victoria Medal jegpeg brought up. Yes, this is extra work for the writers, but it balloons too - a different heist would in theory require a different location, and that means more art, more testing, everything. We could in theory save some of the effort by putting the Medal in the governor's mansion, but if the two encounters only differ in one quest goal, is it really a choice? Is it worth making the extra quest for what is essentially the same experience?

Our 2 choices, they both need to be cool, and fun, and dramatically intense. If one is lamer than the other, or harder, or takes a lot longer, nobody will do it - so is it really a choice? Do the two encounters give balanced rewards? If not, you'll short circuit the choice again - the one with the better reward with be the only one worth doing, right? But a better reward for who? If one choice appeals to a given class more than the other, we've short circuited it again - and giving them the same reward dilutes the impact of having a choice in the first place. Balancing a linear plot can be hard - making sure twin branches are both in sync turns into a headache quickly.

Even if we do all of that correctly, we create a situation where we have 2 encounters, each of which is played by 50% of our player base. Is it worth doing? If I'm aiming to craft a main story that lasts for 120 hours, making two 30 minute encounters that run at the same time isn't helping me hit my target - from my point of view, it's better to have Catbeard give you another mission and extend the Book 30 more minutes than give you that choice.

We deal with this problem a lot with the Companion Promotion quests - any given player will only see 1/5th of the Kraken Skulls/Presidio/MooShu5 promotions. That's why re-using some of those quests (see the Iron Monkey, first Mag7 promo, and the Conundrum Machine) doesn't bother me in the slightest. But it's also not a main plot point - players opt in to the promos.

To be concluded...
Captain
Jan 26, 2012
646
Blaze Carter on Dec 3, 2013 wrote:
Hi there Pirates

x put a big can with yum on the table x

Be sure to get a class of yum and take a seat, then will I tell you all a idea that I will love to see added to the game .

I hope you guys remember the quest from Catbeard in port regal that you need to "kidnap" the Governor's Daughter, yes? great!, well, on a specific moment in that quest Bonnie Anne tells us that she don't like this and if there is a possible way to stop this, Ratbeard on the other hand, loves it and say us to continue, well here is my idea.

Is it not an option to let us choose what to do?, continue or turn back to Catbeard and ask what else we can do, so that we don't need to take the Governor's Daughter?, I know it is hard to change the storyline that is already online but maybe is there an option to add it to the future storyline, and then a couple of this yes or no options.

this means of course more work for the KI team, you need to have 2 quests then instead of 1, one for the continue and one for the turn back give me another option quest, but I will love it if there is a possible way to add it, you can control the game a little bit more then

I hope you all like this and give me some feedback please

See ye all in the spiral

Blaze
PART 3

A few closing points...

To make a choice worthwhile, it needs to have weight and impact. Going back to our example, stealing the Medal or kidnapping Mabel both ultimately lead to the same outcome, story wise - the war. Was it really a choice then?

To make our branching quest worth it, we'd need to have future quests gated on which encounter you did, or have your choice referenced a lot in dialogue. That's a lot of complexity to introduce into quests down the road - it makes them harder to write and implement. What if it turns out the reward for a future quest is really cool, but you can't take that quest because of something you did 50 hours ago? If we let you do it anyway, was your choice really a choice?

Whenever we have your pirate make a controversial choice, we also hang a lot of drama on it in the future - will all of the dialogue that refers back to the events of Book 8 have the same impact if you stole the medal instead of kidnapping Mabel? It might, but ensuring it did would take extra effort.

One final point - there's a difference between richness and complexity - I don't want a main storyline where you can't get to see a cool outcome your friend tells you about because of a choice you made a long time ago. From where I'm sitting, it's much better for your pirate to do the more dramatic choice by default, and spin up drama from the consequences.

So there you go - a loooooong answer, but hopefully enlightening. To make branching plots worthwhile would take too much effort, and introduce lots of risk. Better to have a more linear plot that takes some risks but really shines.
Petty Officer
Mar 29, 2012
87
wow ,

thanks allot Blind Mew for this posts, i understand now why this is not possible, didn't realize that so many things need to discus before even think about add this in a game, rewards, plot, new places, time for each encounter, wow.

thanks again for your great posts, it was awesome to read it.

Blaze
Pirate Overlord
Mar 10, 2009
6204
That makes a whole lot of sense. For someone who is generally a man of wise & mysterious words that can weave through more plot points than colors in a Persian rug, you make an awesome teacher. I really get it and I learn something every time you take time out to share your heart with us. I thank you for that. You have once again made me a wiser player. *Bows slowly with honor and great respect.*
Dread Pirate
Jun 17, 2013
2743
Blind Mew on Dec 4, 2013 wrote:
PART 3

A few closing points...

To make a choice worthwhile, it needs to have weight and impact. Going back to our example, stealing the Medal or kidnapping Mabel both ultimately lead to the same outcome, story wise - the war. Was it really a choice then?

To make our branching quest worth it, we'd need to have future quests gated on which encounter you did, or have your choice referenced a lot in dialogue. That's a lot of complexity to introduce into quests down the road - it makes them harder to write and implement. What if it turns out the reward for a future quest is really cool, but you can't take that quest because of something you did 50 hours ago? If we let you do it anyway, was your choice really a choice?

Whenever we have your pirate make a controversial choice, we also hang a lot of drama on it in the future - will all of the dialogue that refers back to the events of Book 8 have the same impact if you stole the medal instead of kidnapping Mabel? It might, but ensuring it did would take extra effort.

One final point - there's a difference between richness and complexity - I don't want a main storyline where you can't get to see a cool outcome your friend tells you about because of a choice you made a long time ago. From where I'm sitting, it's much better for your pirate to do the more dramatic choice by default, and spin up drama from the consequences.

So there you go - a loooooong answer, but hopefully enlightening. To make branching plots worthwhile would take too much effort, and introduce lots of risk. Better to have a more linear plot that takes some risks but really shines.
"Better to have a more linear plot that takes some risks but really shines." - Blind Mew

.....And oh how it shines

Thanks for giving us a small glimpse of the complexities, intricacies and adventure the developers face that go in to making such an amazing game
Gunner's Mate
Aug 08, 2010
288
Woah!
Really, Really great idea!
I think 2 alternate themes would be...
1: Go back to catbeard because you agree with bonnie anne. He tells you that you have to do it, and then you have another choice, say no or say yes.
IF you say yes, bonnie anne objects, and she's really mad. She comes out, stands glaring at you screaming "There's no way i'm kidnapping an innocent girl, and if you want to, you'll have to go through me!". and challenges you to a fight. It turns out that your Krakens skulls companion agrees with bonnie, and you fight them with bonnie. "Mormo no like this, it spells bad karma". "I know what it feels like to be kidnapped, my cousin was. And if you think i'll inflict that pain on someone else, you're wrong. Dead wrong"- Sarah Steele. "To be an officer we must decline ourselves in petty acts, and this is the lowliest. Sir, i beseech you, don't do it"- Emmett. "Captain, we must be strong like warriors. If you do this, you'll be a coward. And I Wont Let YOU!"- Barnabus. "Captain, mon captain, i thought you were cunning. This is just wrong!" Louis The Krakens skulls companion will have Quick Draw/First Strike2, Riposte/return fire2, overwatch/repel borders2 and double tap/bladestorm. In this fight bonnie anne has the epics: Burst fire 2, Overwatch 2, Double tap and Quick draw. If you defeat bonnie, she'll agree to go back to kidnap the govenors daughter, but she will not participate in any of the battles. When you go there, you only do one battle (the last one) because it takes too long to fight bonnie AND all of the mobs.
IF you say no, catbeard says you don't have a choice, and decides to battle you. "My dear pirate, out of all the fish i've eaten, none of them were as stubborn as you." In the battle Catbeard has repel borders 2, riposte, relentless 2 and blade storm. When you defeat him, you gain all the xp you would have gotten if you did any of those. "I didn't expect my fish to bite back" catbeard says, dazed.
To be continued.
Merciless Jean 65
Gunner's Mate
Aug 08, 2010
288
2: You disagree with bonnie, whilst at the govenours house. "No! I won't let you. I'd rather be dead than a kidnapper. There's no way i'm letting you do this", she whispers, menicangly. Ratbeard speaks on your behalf "Come on, ye idiot fox. We'll take the daughter, get out of here, then return her safely later on. What's wrong with it!" He says, slightly louder than a whisper. "Excuse me? Who's the idiot? Me or you! I'm not a kidnapper, captain I thought you were better than this, i thought you were a leader, not a dirty rat's toy." She shouts, a little too loud. "WHAT! A dirty rat ye say! Ye're the dirty idiot fox, and if you don't follow the captains commands and kidnap this govenours daughter i'll-" "Kidnap who?" A voice, loud as the wind snarls at you. "Uh oh captain, it's the govenour!" You have to fight the govenour, he has 1444 health, is a swash and knows "Shadowdance, Back stab and Assassin's Gloom". Neither Bonnie nor rat beard can join this battle. After you defeat the govenour, it turns out the noise woke up his daughter. "Daddy!" She screams frantically, running to her father, who lays flattened on the ground. She kneels down next to him, sobbing. "What did you do to him!" Ratbeard, inconsiderately says " Come on now, come with us". She turns around, and her face, oh her face, amess with tears and red with fury gives ratbeard a look so dirty his sweat is shampoo to his body. "You're not touching me". She says with slow, silent fury. "I may not be strong, but my father trained me." She puts her hair up in a braid, grabs her fathers sword and goes into an "en guard" pose like mustang sally. "I can kill..." Ratbeard says, "It seems we'll have to fight her then, captain." Rapidly, bonnie shouts "NO! There is no way on earth i'm shooting a girl". ALL of your companions agree, except for ratbeard, but the fierce glare of bonnie and your companions dissuade him. "Well well captain, it seems your companions have turned against you. What now?"
Merciless Jean 65
Ensign
May 23, 2012
41
My iDEA TO MAKE THE GAME MORE INTERACTIVE IS ...

You know how you have to get the amulet from fin in the beginning well maybe every class could have a different beginning quest line . Probobly Buccaneer would keep the fin quest but other classes would have it different .