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THEORY: Armada saviors

1
AuthorMessage
Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
838
I think that the armada IS NOT evil, just misunderstood

1)They try to stop pirates, almost every pirate besides us is "evil"

2) Pollo had said his crew barely escaped el dorado with their lives, and that his crew had no idea of the danger that threatened their lives

3) The builders of el dorado vanished and UNANCHORED the city from the spiral, can you imagine the power it takes to undo the magic that repaired the titans destruction, someone wouldnt do that lightly

4) El dorado may be a tomb or a prison meant to CONTAIN this great danger

5) The armada may be do some bad things like destroy islands and take peoples freedom, but wouldnt LOGICAL robots do whatever it took to save ALL of the spiral

6) Robots with the strongest navy dont need money, so why would they go to el dorado?

I have suggested this to blind mew, his response was interesting theory, but that would be telling

But now i want to hear your opinions message boards

-Robert level 65 privateer, Team EPIC

I
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
After I got over my gut reaction of 'omg, that's horrible!' I'm going to try to argue in a rational manner.

1. true, most pirates we've met are evil - Cutthroats are a good example. But many pirates ( in history ) were escaping an oppressive situation, sound familiar?
2. 3. & 4. I agree completely to your conclusions
5. An historic parallel to the Armada seems to be ( to me, at least ) Nazi Germany. The German people were in full support of Hitler, he ended unemployment and gave a boost to the economy. Did they recognize the complete EVIL of this regime?
6. You answered this one in # 4, because the Great Danger, be it Weapon or Being. will bring them the power to ultimate control of the Spiral.
These are my opinions only, and I thank you for starting this thread. As Socrates said, " Only by questioning can we come to a true opinion." ( or something like that ).
Lieutenant
Jul 09, 2009
151
zuto4011a on Jun 3, 2014 wrote:
I think that the armada IS NOT evil, just misunderstood

1)They try to stop pirates, almost every pirate besides us is "evil"

2) Pollo had said his crew barely escaped el dorado with their lives, and that his crew had no idea of the danger that threatened their lives

3) The builders of el dorado vanished and UNANCHORED the city from the spiral, can you imagine the power it takes to undo the magic that repaired the titans destruction, someone wouldnt do that lightly

4) El dorado may be a tomb or a prison meant to CONTAIN this great danger

5) The armada may be do some bad things like destroy islands and take peoples freedom, but wouldnt LOGICAL robots do whatever it took to save ALL of the spiral

6) Robots with the strongest navy dont need money, so why would they go to el dorado?

I have suggested this to blind mew, his response was interesting theory, but that would be telling

But now i want to hear your opinions message boards

-Robert level 65 privateer, Team EPIC

I
I think it's clear the Armada is evil as it's been shown throughout the game.

1. They don't try to stop pirates, the Armada wants to take over the Spiral and rebuild it. It's obvious they wouldn't want pirates, who represent the ultimate freedom, while their goal is to maintain and oppress.

Pirates aren't necessarily good or evil. They represent the freedom. Very few of the pirates we meet in the game are "evil," they're just living the pirate's life. The only one I'd say you can consider "evil" was Captain Blood. Just because they oppose the PC's crew doesn't mean they're evil. The PC has done some considerably bad things as well like kidnapping.

2. I don't really see your point. No one said the danger in El Dorado is a monster or something of that sort. For all we know the thing that threatened their lives was their greed.

3. El Dorado isn't anchored to anything. The stormgate just never stays in the same place and is constantly changing. We're never told what happened to the builders of El Dorado and such. Nothing about a titan was stated either. I think you're mixing up Wizard101's Celestia with the story of El Dorado.

4. El Dorado is a city of gold, I can see why it's hard to reach.

5. The Armada isn't exactly emotionless. Although the pawns (aka the regular clockworks) are emotionless, Blind Mew said that the Elites do in fact have emotions. This was seen through Rooke who wanted revenge on the PC and crew for destroying his "brother" Deacon.

The Armada's goal isn't to save the Spiral, it's to conquer it.

6. Whatever lies in El Dorado will give them whatever is needed to complete their agenda which is to conquer the Spiral.

I like your theory, but I don't really think that's the case. :)
Ensign
Jan 28, 2013
28
zuto4011a on Jun 3, 2014 wrote:
I think that the armada IS NOT evil, just misunderstood

1)They try to stop pirates, almost every pirate besides us is "evil"

2) Pollo had said his crew barely escaped el dorado with their lives, and that his crew had no idea of the danger that threatened their lives

3) The builders of el dorado vanished and UNANCHORED the city from the spiral, can you imagine the power it takes to undo the magic that repaired the titans destruction, someone wouldnt do that lightly

4) El dorado may be a tomb or a prison meant to CONTAIN this great danger

5) The armada may be do some bad things like destroy islands and take peoples freedom, but wouldnt LOGICAL robots do whatever it took to save ALL of the spiral

6) Robots with the strongest navy dont need money, so why would they go to el dorado?

I have suggested this to blind mew, his response was interesting theory, but that would be telling

But now i want to hear your opinions message boards

-Robert level 65 privateer, Team EPIC

I
I like the idea it is very smart but I still hate the armada because of all the lives they've taken
Admiral
Jul 27, 2012
1196
That's an interesting hypothesis, Robert, and I think that Kane and the Armada do think that they are the 'good guys'. Rather than being evil for evil's sake, they are out to prove the rightness of their cause. And cracking down on pirates - criminals!- surely that is a good thing; readily justifiable. And as you say, Robert, if some measures are harsh, well, the final goal is what matters. In other words, the end justifies the means.

And this is important, as I think it one of the main themes of the Pirate101 story: does the end justify the means? We have followed this tenant, however reluctantly, most critically in our behavior in Port Regal that triggers a war. Good things come out of this action: Carolina and Don Rodrigo are re-united, Napoleguin helps Gortez win his rebellion and overthrow an oppressive and cruel government; we get the information we need to find the map piece that ultimately (hopefully) will save the Spiral from the Armada. We feel pretty good - heroic even... until Chapter 13. We are horrified at the repercussions of our actions, and deeply repentant, but the damage is done. We (and others far more innocent) will continue to suffer the results of our well-intended actions, and our bitter lesson is: no, the end does not justify the means.

But while we are saddened and strengthened by repentance, this is not a lesson to be learned by the Armada, for they consider themselves far superior to any they make suffer. They do need money however, for though they do not have the needs of biological creatures, making weapons, ships, etc. is very costly... not to mention the need to entice allies and bribe informants. But are they 'logical robots'? I don't think so: the elites are too passionate and emphatic to be logical. Nor do I think they are truly robots (or a more 'Age of Pirates' term, 'automata')... but that is for another discussion.

Virtuous Anne Radcliffe (still in the Spiral, really! Just a lot of real world demands lately )
Lieutenant
Jan 28, 2014
104
Sorry, but I completely disagree with this post. We aren't the bad guys, and the Armada aren't good, they're trying to take away the freedom we pirates have. Pirates aren't really bad, they're just enjoying freedom of a pirate's life. Haven't you ever heard of the "You are a Pirate" song?

The Armada wants to conquer the Spiral and rebuild it, with no pirates, no freedom, etc. Do you want that to happen to the Spiral? To become a Robotic place without freedom to do anything you want?

We are the good guys, and we pirates must stop the Armada's nefarious plans. I am 99.999999% sure Kingsisle would NEVER make a plot twist like that. Sorry, but your theory is incorrect. We are the good guys, and they are the bad guys. Sure, we make some mistakes and bad things happen along the way, but we don't HAVE to be perfect, no hero is perfect, you know. So in conclusion, we are Pirates, with a heart of gold, and are the imperfect heros.

That is why your theory is incorrect and why I disagree with it.

Petty Alicia Cog
EDIT: Sorry for being a little blunt, but that's pretty much the way this is. Why would you think we are the bad guys and they are the good guys now? It's a mystery to me.
Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
838
Lucas Walker on Jun 3, 2014 wrote:
I think it's clear the Armada is evil as it's been shown throughout the game.

1. They don't try to stop pirates, the Armada wants to take over the Spiral and rebuild it. It's obvious they wouldn't want pirates, who represent the ultimate freedom, while their goal is to maintain and oppress.

Pirates aren't necessarily good or evil. They represent the freedom. Very few of the pirates we meet in the game are "evil," they're just living the pirate's life. The only one I'd say you can consider "evil" was Captain Blood. Just because they oppose the PC's crew doesn't mean they're evil. The PC has done some considerably bad things as well like kidnapping.

2. I don't really see your point. No one said the danger in El Dorado is a monster or something of that sort. For all we know the thing that threatened their lives was their greed.

3. El Dorado isn't anchored to anything. The stormgate just never stays in the same place and is constantly changing. We're never told what happened to the builders of El Dorado and such. Nothing about a titan was stated either. I think you're mixing up Wizard101's Celestia with the story of El Dorado.

4. El Dorado is a city of gold, I can see why it's hard to reach.

5. The Armada isn't exactly emotionless. Although the pawns (aka the regular clockworks) are emotionless, Blind Mew said that the Elites do in fact have emotions. This was seen through Rooke who wanted revenge on the PC and crew for destroying his "brother" Deacon.

The Armada's goal isn't to save the Spiral, it's to conquer it.

6. Whatever lies in El Dorado will give them whatever is needed to complete their agenda which is to conquer the Spiral.

I like your theory, but I don't really think that's the case. :)
5. Have you ever considered the fact that they are robots unable to go outside their programming, maybe the toymaker lost control of his armada to someone else who is controlling the court and making them replicate emotion when they really have none, and that blind mew has pulled off one incredible cover up
Lieutenant
Jun 16, 2009
133
This is a really interesting theory. It is true that no one ever considers themselves evil, so it unlikely the Armada is the exception to this rule. I like the parallel to Nazi Germany. They were willing to do anything to increase the power of Germany because they thought Germans, specifically Aryans, were superior to all other people (I know that's a simplification, but bear with me please.) The Armada seems to have a similar view of Valencia. Other peoples and nations are less than the Armada and so have less value. Therefore, it does not matter who is killed or destroyed, as long as the Armada is victorious. The Armada searches for El Dorado because they believe that whatever is there has the power to help them conquer the Spiral.
I don't believe that the Armada are entirely robots. They do have emotions and independent thought. So it is possible that they have moved past being drones and are operating independently.
Now for the pirate bit. Technically, we are criminals. We break the law, start wars, and tend to leave chaos in our wake. Of course the Armada, who are trying to conquer and essentially unify the Spiral, would want us gone. Especially considering it is a single pirate who has managed to destroy two of the elites, capture nearly half of Pollo's map, and throw a wrench in several major operations. Pirates are a threat to the Armada, so naturally they need to be eliminated.
Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
838
itsamemario4 on Jun 5, 2014 wrote:
Sorry, but I completely disagree with this post. We aren't the bad guys, and the Armada aren't good, they're trying to take away the freedom we pirates have. Pirates aren't really bad, they're just enjoying freedom of a pirate's life. Haven't you ever heard of the "You are a Pirate" song?

The Armada wants to conquer the Spiral and rebuild it, with no pirates, no freedom, etc. Do you want that to happen to the Spiral? To become a Robotic place without freedom to do anything you want?

We are the good guys, and we pirates must stop the Armada's nefarious plans. I am 99.999999% sure Kingsisle would NEVER make a plot twist like that. Sorry, but your theory is incorrect. We are the good guys, and they are the bad guys. Sure, we make some mistakes and bad things happen along the way, but we don't HAVE to be perfect, no hero is perfect, you know. So in conclusion, we are Pirates, with a heart of gold, and are the imperfect heros.

That is why your theory is incorrect and why I disagree with it.

Petty Alicia Cog
EDIT: Sorry for being a little blunt, but that's pretty much the way this is. Why would you think we are the bad guys and they are the good guys now? It's a mystery to me.
Our crimes: started a war which devastated marleybone, encouraged a revolution in monquista, released the most dangerous mind in the spiral to start another revolution in polarius, not to mention we destroyed troy and slaughtered the snakes, killed thousands on our path to stopping the "evil" armada, robbed people in tumbleweed

Armada's crimes: taking over Valencia from a probably corrupt government, arresting pirates to stop them from PILLIGING AND KILLING THE INNOCENT, destroying a few islands that made the skyways polluted, destroying some books in a skyway
Commodore
Jan 17, 2013
751
zuto4011a on Jun 6, 2014 wrote:
Our crimes: started a war which devastated marleybone, encouraged a revolution in monquista, released the most dangerous mind in the spiral to start another revolution in polarius, not to mention we destroyed troy and slaughtered the snakes, killed thousands on our path to stopping the "evil" armada, robbed people in tumbleweed

Armada's crimes: taking over Valencia from a probably corrupt government, arresting pirates to stop them from PILLIGING AND KILLING THE INNOCENT, destroying a few islands that made the skyways polluted, destroying some books in a skyway
the armada does not want to get us because we kill the innocent, ( which we don't) they want us because we are a threat to their cause and their quest for el dorado, i mean, we ousted 3 of their commanding officers for peats sake, so why wouldent they consider us a threat?
Commodore
Jan 17, 2013
751
zuto4011a on Jun 6, 2014 wrote:
Our crimes: started a war which devastated marleybone, encouraged a revolution in monquista, released the most dangerous mind in the spiral to start another revolution in polarius, not to mention we destroyed troy and slaughtered the snakes, killed thousands on our path to stopping the "evil" armada, robbed people in tumbleweed

Armada's crimes: taking over Valencia from a probably corrupt government, arresting pirates to stop them from PILLIGING AND KILLING THE INNOCENT, destroying a few islands that made the skyways polluted, destroying some books in a skyway
well yes but the armada isnt just your average "bad guys" they are truly despicable and they want to control the whole spiral, kill all us pirates and rule with an iron fist, plus dude, they ousted the once beautiful valenicia, the capital of learning, now a whole culture is lost because of the armada, and your having mercy on them? no, the armada must be stopped no matter what, because if we fail, the armada will control the spiral, millions of innocent people will be killed, and freedom wont exist, that is why they must be stopped, no matter the cost!
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
zuto4011a on Jun 6, 2014 wrote:
Our crimes: started a war which devastated marleybone, encouraged a revolution in monquista, released the most dangerous mind in the spiral to start another revolution in polarius, not to mention we destroyed troy and slaughtered the snakes, killed thousands on our path to stopping the "evil" armada, robbed people in tumbleweed

Armada's crimes: taking over Valencia from a probably corrupt government, arresting pirates to stop them from PILLIGING AND KILLING THE INNOCENT, destroying a few islands that made the skyways polluted, destroying some books in a skyway
You would make an excellent prosecutor in the case against pirates! I hope I never have to face a trial where you are making the case! I OBJECT!
I have never pillaged or killed the innocent. Which 'innocent' have I actually harmed? You'll say by starting a war, I have caused many to suffer; consider, though, when we were in Port Regal, there was another group of kidnappers in the sewer. Who sent them? Could it be that the Armada was preparing to begin a war against Marleybone and we simply began it for them?
It takes some time to build a ship, let alone a supership like Rooke's Executioner. I say they were planning to invade before we stepped in.
Our actions were therefore beneficial to Marleybone by causing them to prepare for a war that otherwise would have found them unprepared.
As to Troy, this war had been going on for years before we showed up. A war that was wearing down both sides and costing many lives. It was better to end it. Unfortunately, there has to be a loser.
Encouraging a revolution to an oppressive regime is the act of a hero. Our own history ( United States of America and literature, as well as media supports this hypothesis.)
As to Napoleguin, if there was a better way to handle that situation, I'd like to hear about it. I was only interested in freeing Mustang Sally, that arrogant runt could have rotted there as far as I cared.
AS to killing 'thousands' to stop the Armada, I only recall destroying Armada troops. I didn't even kill Fin ( who certainly deserved it ). And now some pirates have him as a crew member!
And so, zuto4011, I say NO, our pirates are not evil, but flawed, yes, heroic freedom fighters!!!
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Sorry forgot to answer the charge of 'robbing people in Tumbleweed'. One bank robbed by accident and the money was returned and the true culprits brought to justice.
The Armada's crimes - what gave you the idea that Granchia was polluting the Valencian Skyway? If any thing it's the Armada who is the heaviest polluter there, look at all the exhaust pouring out of their machines.
Actually the books were stolen, not destroyed, in the attempt to gather information about Marco Pollo's journey to El Dorado.
Actions speak louder than words - the Armada is the Enemy of all the Spiral.
Captain
Dec 01, 2012
607
zuto4011a on Jun 6, 2014 wrote:
Our crimes: started a war which devastated marleybone, encouraged a revolution in monquista, released the most dangerous mind in the spiral to start another revolution in polarius, not to mention we destroyed troy and slaughtered the snakes, killed thousands on our path to stopping the "evil" armada, robbed people in tumbleweed

Armada's crimes: taking over Valencia from a probably corrupt government, arresting pirates to stop them from PILLIGING AND KILLING THE INNOCENT, destroying a few islands that made the skyways polluted, destroying some books in a skyway
Armada's crimes:digging Granchia,desecrating the Bruno Chapel,bribing corrupt warlords,bribing the Amber Horde,grave-robbing Marco Pollo,bribbing English Bill,grave-robbing the Aztecosaurs,destroying national heritage(in Mooshu and Skull Island),a whole number of things done in Sivella,bribing Fin Dorsal,stealing from Avery,working on projects Valencia doesn't even know about(for example,I'm pretty sure most Valencians don't know what that big machine is for),evicting people from their homes so they can dig through it...

Hmm...our crimes are plentiful,true.And Annie made the argument about the morality of those decisions,and got old Mew has wrote about it significantly here,so I won't try to talk about it.This thread,however wasn't about why the Armada is evil,it is about why the Armada is good,and indeed we can say that there is no true black and white.There's only black,white,clear black,dark white...and 50,000,000(50 million) shades of grey.The Armada may be trying to get into El Dorado to prevent other people from getting there...but I have a feeling something far far more ominous is at work here...
Lieutenant
Jul 09, 2009
151
zuto4011a on Jun 5, 2014 wrote:
5. Have you ever considered the fact that they are robots unable to go outside their programming, maybe the toymaker lost control of his armada to someone else who is controlling the court and making them replicate emotion when they really have none, and that blind mew has pulled off one incredible cover up
"1. The elites certainly seem to display emotions, just as they seem to be capable of independent thought and acting under their own volition. Whether they have emotions or just a very decent semblance is, I suspect, a philosophical question that may not be answerable. I'm reminded of the interview the Discovery astronauts give about HAL in 2001: a Space Odyssey. As for the lesser Clockworks, no, they're emotionless.

2. All of the Elites were constructed by Kane - they consider themselves siblings with the same maker/parent. They also consider themselves superior beings, just as Kane does. Destroying one was unthinkable, and an affront to all of them."

You don't call someone or consider them a sibling without having some sort of emotional connection to them.

Have you considered the fact they may have become self aware and developed emotions? This isn't reality so there's no limitations in the Spiral.

Our crimes: started a war which devastated marleybone, encouraged a revolution in monquista, released the most dangerous mind... etc.

Armada's crimes: taking over Valencia from a probably corrupt government, arresting pirates to stop them from PILLIGING AND KILLING THE INNOCENT, destroying a few islands that made the skyways polluted, destroying some books in a skyway.

Encouraging or starting a revolution isn't necessarily a crime. If the ruling party is deemed unfit or corrupt, the people have every right to overthrow them and established a fair and just system.

Napoleguin is a military genius, not the most dangerous mind in the Spiral. We didn't help him break out of prison to start another revolution. We wanted him to help overthrow a corrupt monarchy. The Polarians revolted against Napoleguin, who is to say they'll accept him as leader again?

First off, no we didn't kill thousands. Not everything we fight and win against is killed. Defeat and kill are two very different things. Secondly regarding your whole Troy thing, we helped fight in a war. Of course we will have to kill the enemy, but that doesn't necessarily mean we were in the wrong. The Ophidians were portrayed as villians for a reason.

Who are these people we robbed in Tumbleweed? We stole from the gangs that oppressed innocent people.

No the clockworks didn't take over Valencia. Everything they do is brought to King Casmir first.

Who said those arrested were all pirates? Wing Chun was a monk and again not all pirates seek to kill innocent people. Stop stereotyping and displaying pirates and bloody-thirsty heartless people, because they aren't all that way.

What islands made the skyways polluted? This makes no sense to me at all. Please elaborate. The Armada has done much much more than we know as of now. If you're going to attack someone because they see things differently, at least try to not make your opinions seem like facts. Please also don't make up fake scenarios and play them off as factual.
Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
838
Melody Fisher on Jun 5, 2014 wrote:
This is a really interesting theory. It is true that no one ever considers themselves evil, so it unlikely the Armada is the exception to this rule. I like the parallel to Nazi Germany. They were willing to do anything to increase the power of Germany because they thought Germans, specifically Aryans, were superior to all other people (I know that's a simplification, but bear with me please.) The Armada seems to have a similar view of Valencia. Other peoples and nations are less than the Armada and so have less value. Therefore, it does not matter who is killed or destroyed, as long as the Armada is victorious. The Armada searches for El Dorado because they believe that whatever is there has the power to help them conquer the Spiral.
I don't believe that the Armada are entirely robots. They do have emotions and independent thought. So it is possible that they have moved past being drones and are operating independently.
Now for the pirate bit. Technically, we are criminals. We break the law, start wars, and tend to leave chaos in our wake. Of course the Armada, who are trying to conquer and essentially unify the Spiral, would want us gone. Especially considering it is a single pirate who has managed to destroy two of the elites, capture nearly half of Pollo's map, and throw a wrench in several major operations. Pirates are a threat to the Armada, so naturally they need to be eliminated.
your assuming they want to get to el dorado to gain whatever power lies there, they could want to get there to destroy it
Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
838
anecorbie on Jun 6, 2014 wrote:
You would make an excellent prosecutor in the case against pirates! I hope I never have to face a trial where you are making the case! I OBJECT!
I have never pillaged or killed the innocent. Which 'innocent' have I actually harmed? You'll say by starting a war, I have caused many to suffer; consider, though, when we were in Port Regal, there was another group of kidnappers in the sewer. Who sent them? Could it be that the Armada was preparing to begin a war against Marleybone and we simply began it for them?
It takes some time to build a ship, let alone a supership like Rooke's Executioner. I say they were planning to invade before we stepped in.
Our actions were therefore beneficial to Marleybone by causing them to prepare for a war that otherwise would have found them unprepared.
As to Troy, this war had been going on for years before we showed up. A war that was wearing down both sides and costing many lives. It was better to end it. Unfortunately, there has to be a loser.
Encouraging a revolution to an oppressive regime is the act of a hero. Our own history ( United States of America and literature, as well as media supports this hypothesis.)
As to Napoleguin, if there was a better way to handle that situation, I'd like to hear about it. I was only interested in freeing Mustang Sally, that arrogant runt could have rotted there as far as I cared.
AS to killing 'thousands' to stop the Armada, I only recall destroying Armada troops. I didn't even kill Fin ( who certainly deserved it ). And now some pirates have him as a crew member!
And so, zuto4011, I say NO, our pirates are not evil, but flawed, yes, heroic freedom fighters!!!
Rooke's ship: of course they would prepare a ship such as that for their venture to el dorado, why would they go with a small weaker ship?

Troy: we got the greatest warrior in Aquila slain along with the rest of the snake population

Napoleguin: help gortez ourselves, we are the main character after all, we can't lose

Killing thousands: are you saying you left the cutthroats, troggies monquista soldiers, banditoads, wild bunch, red sash gang, mooshu warriors, marleybonian soldiers, various pirates in the skyways, snakes, vultures alive to attack others as they attacked us? if so that's ever worse then killing them
Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
838
Lucas Walker on Jun 6, 2014 wrote:
"1. The elites certainly seem to display emotions, just as they seem to be capable of independent thought and acting under their own volition. Whether they have emotions or just a very decent semblance is, I suspect, a philosophical question that may not be answerable. I'm reminded of the interview the Discovery astronauts give about HAL in 2001: a Space Odyssey. As for the lesser Clockworks, no, they're emotionless.

2. All of the Elites were constructed by Kane - they consider themselves siblings with the same maker/parent. They also consider themselves superior beings, just as Kane does. Destroying one was unthinkable, and an affront to all of them."

You don't call someone or consider them a sibling without having some sort of emotional connection to them.

Have you considered the fact they may have become self aware and developed emotions? This isn't reality so there's no limitations in the Spiral.

Our crimes: started a war which devastated marleybone, encouraged a revolution in monquista, released the most dangerous mind... etc.

Armada's crimes: taking over Valencia from a probably corrupt government, arresting pirates to stop them from PILLIGING AND KILLING THE INNOCENT, destroying a few islands that made the skyways polluted, destroying some books in a skyway.

Encouraging or starting a revolution isn't necessarily a crime. If the ruling party is deemed unfit or corrupt, the people have every right to overthrow them and established a fair and just system.

Napoleguin is a military genius, not the most dangerous mind in the Spiral. We didn't help him break out of prison to start another revolution. We wanted him to help overthrow a corrupt monarchy. The Polarians revolted against Napoleguin, who is to say they'll accept him as leader again?

First off, no we didn't kill thousands. Not everything we fight and win against is killed. Defeat and kill are two very different things. Secondly regarding your whole Troy thing, we helped fight in a war. Of course we will have to kill the enemy, but that doesn't necessarily mean we were in the wrong. The Ophidians were portrayed as villians for a reason.

Who are these people we robbed in Tumbleweed? We stole from the gangs that oppressed innocent people.

No the clockworks didn't take over Valencia. Everything they do is brought to King Casmir first.

Who said those arrested were all pirates? Wing Chun was a monk and again not all pirates seek to kill innocent people. Stop stereotyping and displaying pirates and bloody-thirsty heartless people, because they aren't all that way.

What islands made the skyways polluted? This makes no sense to me at all. Please elaborate. The Armada has done much much more than we know as of now. If you're going to attack someone because they see things differently, at least try to not make your opinions seem like facts. Please also don't make up fake scenarios and play them off as factual.
i'm certain I know you ingame so I don't know why your posting it here,

encouraging a revolution and starting one is TREASON, this isn't America where its a constitutional right to over throw a corrupt government

and the game called napoleguin the most dangerous mind in the spiral

there are badges for killing things like snakes and troggies, those alone are 750 kills since we obviously wouldn't leave those vicious enemies alive, then lets add the pig bandits in mooshu along with the amber hoard and now lets also add the vulture pirates, easily over a thousand

I assume you missed the sidequest in tumbleweed where we robbed people for a peacock, we did give the money back but we still robbed them

the creators lost control of the clockworks, I think that's a thing called a take over, or a coup

and the majority of the pirates are killers( cutthroats, monquistan renegades, vulture pirates, most enemies in cool ranch, amber hoard, cat pirates)

and what fake scenarios did I make up?
Lieutenant
Jun 16, 2009
133
zuto4011a on Jun 7, 2014 wrote:
your assuming they want to get to el dorado to gain whatever power lies there, they could want to get there to destroy it
Yes, I am assuming the Armada intends to gain from their quest to El Dorado. It seems to me that if they did not intend to use whatever is there, they would not have to bother with gaining all of the map pieces. El Dorado is already unmoored and practically cut off from the rest of the Spiral. If the Armada wanted to protect the Spiral from it, it would be far easier to destroy one of the map pieces. That would make it functionally impossible for anyone to get to the dangers of El Dorado. If the Armada did not intend to profit from the venture, why would they divert so many resources to finding the entire map?
Administrator
zuto4011a on Jun 7, 2014 wrote:
i'm certain I know you ingame so I don't know why your posting it here,

encouraging a revolution and starting one is TREASON, this isn't America where its a constitutional right to over throw a corrupt government

and the game called napoleguin the most dangerous mind in the spiral

there are badges for killing things like snakes and troggies, those alone are 750 kills since we obviously wouldn't leave those vicious enemies alive, then lets add the pig bandits in mooshu along with the amber hoard and now lets also add the vulture pirates, easily over a thousand

I assume you missed the sidequest in tumbleweed where we robbed people for a peacock, we did give the money back but we still robbed them

the creators lost control of the clockworks, I think that's a thing called a take over, or a coup

and the majority of the pirates are killers( cutthroats, monquistan renegades, vulture pirates, most enemies in cool ranch, amber hoard, cat pirates)

and what fake scenarios did I make up?
Hi! Just one small reminder here . . . combat in Pirate101 is non-lethal. Players and enemies are defeated in combat and not killed. You, and the countless other pirates that come after you, are "teaching a lesson" to the bad guys when you defeat them (with hopes they will change their ways).
*One-Eyed Jack, Your Pirate101 Community Manager*
Captain
Dec 01, 2012
607
One-Eyed Jack on Jun 8, 2014 wrote:
Hi! Just one small reminder here . . . combat in Pirate101 is non-lethal. Players and enemies are defeated in combat and not killed. You, and the countless other pirates that come after you, are "teaching a lesson" to the bad guys when you defeat them (with hopes they will change their ways).
Not in every case,I'm pretty sure Deacon and Rooke didn't escape and change their ways...

And while I do enjoy seeing a debate like this,make sure it stays a debate,and doesn't turn into an argument(there's a big difference between the two).Try not to get too fiery.Remember:Jack's keeping an eye...
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
zuto4011a on Jun 7, 2014 wrote:
Rooke's ship: of course they would prepare a ship such as that for their venture to el dorado, why would they go with a small weaker ship?

Troy: we got the greatest warrior in Aquila slain along with the rest of the snake population

Napoleguin: help gortez ourselves, we are the main character after all, we can't lose

Killing thousands: are you saying you left the cutthroats, troggies monquista soldiers, banditoads, wild bunch, red sash gang, mooshu warriors, marleybonian soldiers, various pirates in the skyways, snakes, vultures alive to attack others as they attacked us? if so that's ever worse then killing them
'Killing' or defeating' thousands' - you somehow implied in your accusation that they were also 'innocent' so we defeated them, what's your point? If leaving them alive to continue is worse than defeating them, then we did a good thing by trouncing them! Either we are 'evil' for beating them or we are 'evil' for letting them go. You can't have it both ways.
Starting a revolution isn't treason if you win ( sorry if that's cynical, but history is written by the winners ) it also isn't treason if you're not a citizen of said country. ( Did you enjoy Star Wars? The Jedi and Resistance were revolting against the empire. )
Eagiles was a warrior, they know the chance of defeat and death is there, it's not our fault he was defeated. There are still Ophidians around, they weren't exterminated.
We couldn't stop and assist Gortez with his revolt, we're pirates, not military stategists. And we're in a race against the Armada to find El Dorado.
Rooke's ship was not an exploratory vessel, but a war ship. Intended for a specific purpose: war.
I'm sorry, Robert, it's an interesting hypothesis; but no matter how you change and twist the facts to suit your idea, it doesn't change the fact that the Armada is Evil, by their actions and plans ( as shown to us ).
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Robert, I'm truly, really sorry to have to disagree with your hypothesis . Blind Mew was right to say it was interesting. We can argue this back and forth ' til the cows come home'; but why do you want us pirates to be the villains and the Armada heroes?
Your 'theory' has one fatal flaw and I can prove it: if you can name one instance of the Armada acting heroically, generously, or selflessly; then I would concede that they may be 'misunderstood'
We pirates have often done side quests where we put our own desires aside and given aid to others, I'll name two, ( but I'm sure you and others can name more) We restored a stolen satchel to Mary MacCaw in Cooper's Roost and the stolen lanterns in Rokugawa. This was done without reward ( besides exp ).
Lieutenant
Jul 09, 2009
151
zuto4011a on Jun 7, 2014 wrote:
i'm certain I know you ingame so I don't know why your posting it here,

encouraging a revolution and starting one is TREASON, this isn't America where its a constitutional right to over throw a corrupt government

and the game called napoleguin the most dangerous mind in the spiral

there are badges for killing things like snakes and troggies, those alone are 750 kills since we obviously wouldn't leave those vicious enemies alive, then lets add the pig bandits in mooshu along with the amber hoard and now lets also add the vulture pirates, easily over a thousand

I assume you missed the sidequest in tumbleweed where we robbed people for a peacock, we did give the money back but we still robbed them

the creators lost control of the clockworks, I think that's a thing called a take over, or a coup

and the majority of the pirates are killers( cutthroats, monquistan renegades, vulture pirates, most enemies in cool ranch, amber hoard, cat pirates)

and what fake scenarios did I make up?
I know plenty of people ingame including you, I don't see your point. I'm free to voice my opinion if I want to even if it goes against the opinion's of someone I know. Just because I may seem to post harshly doesn't mean I'm not your friend or whatnot. Don't take what I say personally...

It's not just a constitutional right, it's a right everyone is born with regardless of nationality. If the government ruling you is corrupt and unfair, you have every right as a person to revolt.

Those are badges for defeating, not killing. "Defeat" and "kill' are two very different things.

Yep, I did miss that sidequest.

The clockworks were given control of the Valencian navy and army. They don't run Valencia, King Casmir is still very much in charge. Ol' Johnny clockwork answers to the unicorn.

Where in the game did it state that some of those groups listed killed? Many of them do pillage and steal, but again they're living the pirate's life. What's the Armada's excuse for destroying an entire island and valuable art objects?

The islands polluting the skyway is one example. Wanna see real pollution, take a look at that giant machine in the middle of Valencia. How about that big chunk of metal the Armada hulled into Westminster skyway? Granchia wasn't polluting anything.
Gunner's Mate
Jul 08, 2013
263
zuto4011a on Jun 3, 2014 wrote:
I think that the armada IS NOT evil, just misunderstood

1)They try to stop pirates, almost every pirate besides us is "evil"

2) Pollo had said his crew barely escaped el dorado with their lives, and that his crew had no idea of the danger that threatened their lives

3) The builders of el dorado vanished and UNANCHORED the city from the spiral, can you imagine the power it takes to undo the magic that repaired the titans destruction, someone wouldnt do that lightly

4) El dorado may be a tomb or a prison meant to CONTAIN this great danger

5) The armada may be do some bad things like destroy islands and take peoples freedom, but wouldnt LOGICAL robots do whatever it took to save ALL of the spiral

6) Robots with the strongest navy dont need money, so why would they go to el dorado?

I have suggested this to blind mew, his response was interesting theory, but that would be telling

But now i want to hear your opinions message boards

-Robert level 65 privateer, Team EPIC

I
THAT is the craziest theory i have ever heard i like your style
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