(continued)

TheRedWallMouse asked whether our depictions of the Water Moles and Troggies were slurs against people of color, specifically Polynesians and South American tribal peoples. I don't think they are, though I can understand how certain elements could raise the question. There are a few factors at play here, and I'll address them in turn.

I think part of the issue here is comedy. One of the core pillars of Pirate101 is humor – we lay the jokes and references on thick. Characters often have outrageous accents, and the Water Moles are no different. They sometimes speak in broken English, and even the ones who speak fluent English (and a lot of them do) have voices meant to make them quirky and funny. It's a tricky dance, using characters to make jokes without making fun of them. I don't think we crossed the line here - but I do realize that the perception of that line is highly subjective. No offense or disrespect was ever intended. As other posters have pointed out, our treatment of other groups later in the game shows how seriously we take our cultural depictions.

That said, I realize now, looking back, that the Water Moles and Troggies don't get as deep a treatment as other groups later in the game. Part of that, I think, is the fact that Skull Island is crammed full of so many groups – Wharf Rats, Sharks, Monquistans, Marleyboneans, and all manner of pirates are competing for story time. As a result, the Water Moles ended up more of a sketch than a fully realized culture, especially when compared to the Bison or other cultures. The Troggies get even less. That's unfortunate, and I'll keep my eyes open for ways to address this in the future.

(more to come)

(continued)

Over the course of the thread the topic of the Water Mole workers on the isle of Doom came up, and their "slave revolt." This needs to get addressed. I want to state unequivocally, right now, that those Water Moles are NOT slaves – they're workers the Monquistans brought with them to the Isle of Doom. One of the Water Mole NPCs explains that they're happy to do the work, and are well-treated. In retrospect, this dialogue should have been brought up in the main line, and that's a miscalculation on my part. Haku and Mogatu are not leading the rebellion because the Water Moles are being mistreated – they're doing it because they're under the influence of the Aztecosaur Mummy at the bottom of the temple. The Old One has corrupted them into leading a fight to conquer the island for themselves. As a poster pointed out, they've kidnapped other Water Moles and are holding them hostage. This storyline was intended to be a sly wink at my Lovecraftian roots, not a depiction of the evils of colonialism and slavery. That said, having just replayed it, it's obvious that bit doesn't land - the story isn't nearly as clear as it needs to be. So I'm also looking to make Haku and Mogatu's story much clearer in their dialogue in an upcoming update.

Long story short: thanks to the OP for bringing this up. It is never our intention here at KI to employ any kind of racial slur in our content. We have high editorial standards to prevent it, and we've undertaken a serious review since this thread began to look at these specific issues. And that review will result in some changes to the content in future updates. I hope this discussion has assuaged your concerns, and I'd like to thank all of the players who came forward to contribute. Smooth sailing to all of ye!

The good news here is that Blind Mew is alive and well. We need more "history lessons" to continue our education....

Helpful Aurora Par... on Jan 4, 2018 wrote:

Just so you know, this was from my friend in-game Fearless Griffin Davenport. He wanted to post but he is not a member, so he told me to say this:

"By the way, Theredwallmouse, with you posting this thread, having low experience in the game and being brand new, it gives the appearance that your main goal is not to join, play and have fun, but to stir up trouble and cause division. If this question was asked after you being a Level 70, I'd give it more credence to that sort of question as being a real concern. As for now, just have fun - there's no racial insinuation by Pirate101." - Fearless Griffin Davenport

edwallmouse's concern shouldn't be dismissed either just because they're fairly new to the game and I certainly didn't get the impression that they were trying to stir up trouble either. I guess it all comes down to perception. Moreover, you'd be surprised to know that there may be others who also share these same concerns, but are too afraid to speak up because of responses like this (among others in this thread that wrote the original post off as "looking for things that aren't there"). Kudos to Theredwallmouse for posting this thought-provoking subject and bravo to the mods for approving it.

For the record Aurora, I know it wasn't you making that statement.

Now to the subject at hand...

To answer your question OP, I believe that P101 does a pretty good job overall depicting the cultures presented in the storyline while keeping it fun and family friendly.

*Spoilers here* Ipersonally loved how the Bisons in Cool Ranch were portrayed. On the other hand, I am not too crazy of the Troggies being referred to as "savages" either. I'm pleased that Blind Mew acknowledged that the word itself is problematic (at least, coming from "our side") and is willing to clean up the dialogue in that regard. Additionally, I wasn't fond of the heavy Super Mario Italian accent the Vultures were given in Aquila, but I guess I wouldn't think too much of it since it might have been done for comedic purposes. There's really not much I can add since Anecorbie went into great detail describing how the citizens in each spiral is being portrayed and who they're based on historically.

FairLady1882 on Jan 10, 2018 wrote:

edwallmouse's concern shouldn't be dismissed either just because they're fairly new to the game and I certainly didn't get the impression that they were trying to stir up trouble either. I guess it all comes down to perception. Moreover, you'd be surprised to know that there may be others who also share these same concerns, but are too afraid to speak up because of responses like this (among others in this thread that wrote the original post off as "looking for things that aren't there"). Kudos to Theredwallmouse for posting this thought-provoking subject and bravo to the mods for approving it.

For the record Aurora, I know it wasn't you making that statement.

Now to the subject at hand...

To answer your question OP, I believe that P101 does a pretty good job overall depicting the cultures presented in the storyline while keeping it fun and family friendly.

*Spoilers here* Ipersonally loved how the Bisons in Cool Ranch were portrayed. On the other hand, I am not too crazy of the Troggies being referred to as "savages" either. I'm pleased that Blind Mew acknowledged that the word itself is problematic (at least, coming from "our side") and is willing to clean up the dialogue in that regard. Additionally, I wasn't fond of the heavy Super Mario Italian accent the Vultures were given in Aquila, but I guess I wouldn't think too much of it since it might have been done for comedic purposes. There's really not much I can add since Anecorbie went into great detail describing how the citizens in each spiral is being portrayed and who they're based on historically.

Hi, FairLady1882. I told Griffin about this response, so here is his.

"Firstly, do not assume I am dismissing the post. But I have every right to voice my concerns the same as anyone else. My perspective is my own and I'm voicing what my experience, which is quite vast, conveys when it comes to introducing controversial ideas into a platform made for fun, enjoyment and game-playing. You assume I think that this poster is not looking for things that aren't there, but I stand firm in my integrity that Pirate101, the staff, the game and its agenda has nothing to do with race, nationality or controversial issues. That is my sole response and I will stand firm in this. So next time, don't assume someone else's motives because my motive was to make sure that the game is the game and not a lack of depiction or hidden agenda of some sort of derogatory endeavor to portray cultures. I recommend that you chill and refocus on just having fun. Arrgh! "

RRRRZZZZ419 on Jan 10, 2018 wrote:

Just because you don't take offense to something doesn't mean someone else(particularly of a different culture) doesn't take offense also. Someone who grew up with a different background than you might take offense to something you don't. That isn't a bad thing. Maybe you played through the entire Pirate 101 game all the way to the current max level of 70 and had fun, but someone else of a different culture might do the same but find a couple of parts aggravating. I agree with you that Ki hasn't tried to be racist on purpose, but something could easily been overlooked especially if not all cultures are represented in Ki's staff.

Hi, Die No. Here's his response.

"Thanks for a great reply, Dino. It's true, in reality (and unfortunately also in online gaming), that the potential for anyone and everyone to be offended is greater in today's society than ever before. Unfortunately, any business, organization or individual (which includes KingsIsle and Pirate101) cannot cater and appease every single ideology. If that were indeed the case, then over 70% of Pirate101 would not exist. After all, certain cultures emphatically cried racism at the blockbuster Avatar movie because the bad guy attributed the Na'vi to being 'blue monkeys'. Another article states that inanimate objects such as trees are racist because of their location.

Point being, that entire companies, organizations, leaders and overall very good people have been sloppily and naively labeled racist without proof or substantiation.

Great point, Dino. I'm hoping that the original poster hopefully will understand the brevity of the implication, whether true or false.

Everyone on here has the 'right' to voice opinions, perspectives and even with a welcome concerns and possible due harm. However, that being said, with the stroke of our pen (or type of our keyboard, I should say), not only do we have a right - but a responsibility to make sure that we understand the power of words - how they heal, how they bless, how they hurt and how they wound.

I only say all this to point out that KingsIsle has done an epic, phenomenal job in creating an online MMORPG that can be enjoyed by so many. Let's try to keep that being the focus, rather than secondary or peripheral insinuations. Rock on, have fun and good hunting, all Pirates!"

FairLady1882 on Jan 12, 2018 wrote:

Alright firstly, tell him he needs to chill. We're having a discussion and nobody is trying to silence him. Moreover, even though it wasn't his intent, the tone in his original reply was a bit dismissive (not entirely, just a bit), hence my response."If this question was asked after you being a level 70, I'd give it more credence to that sort of question as being a real concern". Those are his words, not mine, so perhaps he should be more mindful of his wording. Additionally, my "looking for things that aren't there" quote was directed at other replies in the topic (they're in the minority, but they're there).

My point - and I stand by this - is to not invalidate someone else's concerns just because you don't agree (or simply because it doesn't affect you). I agree that this is just a game and it should be fun (and it is), but at least acknowledge that even in a family friendly game, problematic elements can get overlooked and if it is noticed, it should be addressed.

Now, let me set the record straight: I never said that the game was racist. While I did state that there were about two elements in the game that I had an issue with, I never wrote the game off as racist. I even stated that Pirate101 did a great job portraying the cultures presented.

This is the last post I will make concerning this as I wish not to discuss this any further. If Griffin still wants to chat, I have five max toons by the names of :
Slick Tabitha Silver
Witty hazel Jackson
Crazy Grace Kidd
Little Aisha Armstrong and
Fiery Rachel Gordon

I'm always down for a Moo Manchu or Kane run, but I don't do PvPs since I highly doubt my toons are built for that.

Hi there, FairLady1882. I'm sorry that there's some misunderstanding there. This is Griffin's reply back, but it's his last post on this thread.

"You have your opinions, I have mine and both need to respect each other's equally. The tone can be taken equally with your post, disregarding and criticizing mine. Everyone has a right to state how they feel and your post seems to criticize, bash and disregard the very important things that I had mentioned. This is my last post and I encourage you and others to be careful on how you criticize others while saying others are criticizing you. That is called hypocrisy.

Anyhoo, again, careful on the words (and tone) and, as I mentioned multiple times, it would be great to refocus on the game, the experience and the whole point of why Pirate101 was created. It's not a platform for controversy or mislabeling others - it's a place to play for a phenomenal experience of an MMORPG. Period. Don't make it more than it is. Take it or leave it, what I've said is truth. Just saying..."

Blind Mew on Jan 9, 2018 wrote:

(continued)

TheRedWallMouse asked whether our depictions of the Water Moles and Troggies were slurs against people of color, specifically Polynesians and South American tribal peoples. I don't think they are, though I can understand how certain elements could raise the question. There are a few factors at play here, and I'll address them in turn.

I think part of the issue here is comedy. One of the core pillars of Pirate101 is humor – we lay the jokes and references on thick. Characters often have outrageous accents, and the Water Moles are no different. They sometimes speak in broken English, and even the ones who speak fluent English (and a lot of them do) have voices meant to make them quirky and funny. It's a tricky dance, using characters to make jokes without making fun of them. I don't think we crossed the line here - but I do realize that the perception of that line is highly subjective. No offense or disrespect was ever intended. As other posters have pointed out, our treatment of other groups later in the game shows how seriously we take our cultural depictions.

That said, I realize now, looking back, that the Water Moles and Troggies don't get as deep a treatment as other groups later in the game. Part of that, I think, is the fact that Skull Island is crammed full of so many groups – Wharf Rats, Sharks, Monquistans, Marleyboneans, and all manner of pirates are competing for story time. As a result, the Water Moles ended up more of a sketch than a fully realized culture, especially when compared to the Bison or other cultures. The Troggies get even less. That's unfortunate, and I'll keep my eyes open for ways to address this in the future.

(more to come)

brilliant and thoughtful response as always, and though I'm sure none of the vets want time wasted pulling you away from what you're cooking up for us in future worlds, I for one applaud you for taking the time out to replay the entire main storyline and to be willing to adjust sensitive wordings to make it be smoother.. not sure if a minor comment like "they're acting savage" instead of us calling them savages would be worse or better.. though with my roots i do despise that word i also feel its one that helps with the awakening on the whole.. the fact that words were rude and can hurt all is a real life thing.. though it might be better to do as you suggested, scrub it fully in isle of doom but leaving it in cool ranch where its better explained..

the suggestion of adding some ?new side quests? ?new mini dungeons? to highlight the best of the troggies' and watermoles' cultures and to better explain what the main didn't is most generous of you and an applause-worthy step by the entire KI team.. though needs be that it is something extra neat and full of such amazing rewards that it'd be silly for any pirate to ignore playing(thus less likely to be missed).. like epic powers only trainable after finishing this quest, Baar/Bonnie Anne comparable heavy duty companions, a new gold vault for depositing in-game gold, 5 training tomes, permanent backpack unlock of +50 items, ship satchel where-in all ship items not equipped don't fill up main bag, pet satchel (holds 50)where-in only the equipped pet and any others over 50 count towards backpack space, free stitching coupons to be used with mrs. merryweather, some could be epic possible drops, however the first-time finish should have a giant reward combo of crazy gold crazy nautical xp and the 5 tomes could be a start..

again thank you for your time spent exploring this and listening and responding to us all much love to you buddy <3 we eagerly await whatever you're cooking up for us soon :3

stormy jen silver