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Glitch in withdoctor damage

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AuthorMessage
Lieutenant
Dec 19, 2011
133
Ratbeard, a number of players, including myself, have noticed a glitch with witch doctor spell damage. The spell damage is way too little, even when out of range of witch hunter. I was in a rank PVP match vs a buccaneer, he was over 10 squares away. I did a mournsong with the middle spell boost, and it did under 300 damage! He had no shields. Other people have also noticed this in PVP after the latest update
Developer
Give me as much info as you can.

Is this all the time, intermittent, PvP only?

Does he have witch hunter?
Petty Officer
Mar 31, 2016
57
I don't Pvp, but if this is the case, I hope it gets fixed immediately.

I honestly wish it would go back to the days where it didn't have an exact number on the card, only because the numbers seem to be a little inconsistent.
Lieutenant
Dec 19, 2011
133
Ratbeard on Oct 13, 2016 wrote:
Give me as much info as you can.

Is this all the time, intermittent, PvP only?

Does he have witch hunter?
I have not tried this outside of PVP, but in PVP, it happens every single time an opponent with witchhunter is targeted.

For example, in a couple of matches, I did ocuboros first turn. The companions that were hit by it had exactly double the damage of the swashbuckler that was hit by it.
Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
Ratbeard on Oct 13, 2016 wrote:
Give me as much info as you can.

Is this all the time, intermittent, PvP only?

Does he have witch hunter?
All the time, PvE and PvP (just tested it before replying), but ONLY on targets that have witch hunter.
Developer
So there's not a glitch in witchdoctor damage. You're attacking a target with witch hunter and he's getting his damage reduction.

Does that sum it up?
Lieutenant
Jun 08, 2009
126
so basically just having Witchunter means you take -50% damage from witch attacks
Lieutenant
Jun 08, 2009
126
Ratbeard on Oct 14, 2016 wrote:
So there's not a glitch in witchdoctor damage. You're attacking a target with witch hunter and he's getting his damage reduction.

Does that sum it up?
So the way witchunter is supposed to work is As long as they have the talent and are in range to trigger it they will always take the -50% damage? I think we were under the assumption the attack had to land and so even if they the witch dodges witchhunter they will still take -50%?
Lieutenant
Dec 19, 2011
133
Ratbeard on Oct 14, 2016 wrote:
So there's not a glitch in witchdoctor damage. You're attacking a target with witch hunter and he's getting his damage reduction.

Does that sum it up?
I thought that witch hunter had to active in order for the damage reduction to occur? Also, doesnt the hit have to actually land?

If not, then this is even more surprising than any one had expected. How can a witch doctor, who attacks from range, be expected to win if his damage is cut in half even from across the board? This is just ridiculous I can't believe that this is the way that witch hunter is intended to work.
Lieutenant
Dec 19, 2011
133
Ratbeard on Oct 14, 2016 wrote:
So there's not a glitch in witchdoctor damage. You're attacking a target with witch hunter and he's getting his damage reduction.

Does that sum it up?
Just to clarify, if a buccaneer with witch hunter is 15 squares away from a witch doctor, and the witch doctor does a mournsong, the damage is supposed to be reduced by 50%?
Ensign
Jul 12, 2016
41
Ratbeard on Oct 14, 2016 wrote:
So there's not a glitch in witchdoctor damage. You're attacking a target with witch hunter and he's getting his damage reduction.

Does that sum it up?
Well from that perspective, it still definitely is a glitch, but the problem is caused by the witch hunter change, because while we are attacking the target with witch hunter, he is not in range nor does the witch hunter trigger at all. So the only situation where he would deserve the reduce is first if witch hunter triggers, and second, if it lands. Yet in these examples, neither of the criteria are met. For reference, no other epic's reduce/buff is activated unless the epic is triggered in the first place. But the problem certainly is based on the fact that witch hunter is giving players with that epic a game breaking advantage over other witchdoctors that makes it super hard for us to compete in the arena.
Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
398
I'm most curious about this too, is this a glitch or not?

What I'd like to really know is if witch hunter works while being hidden... and if hidden stays or not.

I've been having this practice point for month and I'm tempted to go get WH, but if it breaks hide I'm not taking it...
Developer
Sunny Wolf on Oct 14, 2016 wrote:
so basically just having Witchunter means you take -50% damage from witch attacks
Not unless it is it triggering more than once in a round. Is that the case?

We have an upcoming patch window, at which time I'll adjust so that WH will only trigger the damage reduction if the attacker is adjacent.

The return attack will trigger at your normal attack range, as before.
Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
Ratbeard on Oct 15, 2016 wrote:
Not unless it is it triggering more than once in a round. Is that the case?

We have an upcoming patch window, at which time I'll adjust so that WH will only trigger the damage reduction if the attacker is adjacent.

The return attack will trigger at your normal attack range, as before.
"So basically just having witch hunter means you take -50% damage from witch attacks?"
_ _ _

Not unless it is triggering more than once in a round

Well that is the entire problem right there, witch attacks have been doing -50% damage without witch hunter triggering at all. We the players are under the impression that the change you are suggesting has been in place this entire time, are you saying this is not the case? Otherwise I believe this cleared things up.
Ensign
Jul 12, 2016
41
Ratbeard on Oct 15, 2016 wrote:
Not unless it is it triggering more than once in a round. Is that the case?

We have an upcoming patch window, at which time I'll adjust so that WH will only trigger the damage reduction if the attacker is adjacent.

The return attack will trigger at your normal attack range, as before.
Well if its in range, the witch hunt attack itself only triggers once, but the reduce never stops from round 1. Also, thank you for deciding to fix it.
Developer
Due to the way our effect system operates, the damage reduction needs to be separate from the response attack. They can activate independently of each other, so you won't necessarily need to see the Witch Hunter attack go off in order for the damage reduction to activate.

Overlooking the range aspect of the damage reduction is definitely an error on my part-- hopefully the adjacency requirement on the damage reduction brings it more in line.

As a reminder-- if you are a witchdoctor, and there is an enemy Witch Hunter standing next to you, you're probably going to lose a toe-to-toe exchange. Your action at that point is better served doing almost anything else than trying to damage him.

Quite frankly that probably applies regardless of whether the enemy has witch hunter.

An enemy standing right next to you is your worst case scenario. You have one line of spells designed to help deal with that situation (Mojo Blade) but the scarcity of that kind of power compared to the rest of your arsenal should speak volumes about how the witch doctor is expected to perform.

I'll be adding more tools in your kit for keeping enemies at a distance and defending yourself when they get too close (key word: defense).

There's more changes in the upcoming patch, but I'll wait for One-Eyed Jack to post patch notes before I weigh in on those other changes.
Lieutenant
Dec 19, 2011
133
Ratbeard on Oct 16, 2016 wrote:
Due to the way our effect system operates, the damage reduction needs to be separate from the response attack. They can activate independently of each other, so you won't necessarily need to see the Witch Hunter attack go off in order for the damage reduction to activate.

Overlooking the range aspect of the damage reduction is definitely an error on my part-- hopefully the adjacency requirement on the damage reduction brings it more in line.

As a reminder-- if you are a witchdoctor, and there is an enemy Witch Hunter standing next to you, you're probably going to lose a toe-to-toe exchange. Your action at that point is better served doing almost anything else than trying to damage him.

Quite frankly that probably applies regardless of whether the enemy has witch hunter.

An enemy standing right next to you is your worst case scenario. You have one line of spells designed to help deal with that situation (Mojo Blade) but the scarcity of that kind of power compared to the rest of your arsenal should speak volumes about how the witch doctor is expected to perform.

I'll be adding more tools in your kit for keeping enemies at a distance and defending yourself when they get too close (key word: defense).

There's more changes in the upcoming patch, but I'll wait for One-Eyed Jack to post patch notes before I weigh in on those other changes.
One tool that we already have is charm. Given this change in with hunter, I think it would be even more important for this to be allowed in PVP again
Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
163
Ratbeard on Oct 16, 2016 wrote:
Due to the way our effect system operates, the damage reduction needs to be separate from the response attack. They can activate independently of each other, so you won't necessarily need to see the Witch Hunter attack go off in order for the damage reduction to activate.

Overlooking the range aspect of the damage reduction is definitely an error on my part-- hopefully the adjacency requirement on the damage reduction brings it more in line.

As a reminder-- if you are a witchdoctor, and there is an enemy Witch Hunter standing next to you, you're probably going to lose a toe-to-toe exchange. Your action at that point is better served doing almost anything else than trying to damage him.

Quite frankly that probably applies regardless of whether the enemy has witch hunter.

An enemy standing right next to you is your worst case scenario. You have one line of spells designed to help deal with that situation (Mojo Blade) but the scarcity of that kind of power compared to the rest of your arsenal should speak volumes about how the witch doctor is expected to perform.

I'll be adding more tools in your kit for keeping enemies at a distance and defending yourself when they get too close (key word: defense).

There's more changes in the upcoming patch, but I'll wait for One-Eyed Jack to post patch notes before I weigh in on those other changes.
Readied spell is new meta, calling it.
Ensign
Jul 12, 2016
41
Ratbeard on Oct 16, 2016 wrote:
Due to the way our effect system operates, the damage reduction needs to be separate from the response attack. They can activate independently of each other, so you won't necessarily need to see the Witch Hunter attack go off in order for the damage reduction to activate.

Overlooking the range aspect of the damage reduction is definitely an error on my part-- hopefully the adjacency requirement on the damage reduction brings it more in line.

As a reminder-- if you are a witchdoctor, and there is an enemy Witch Hunter standing next to you, you're probably going to lose a toe-to-toe exchange. Your action at that point is better served doing almost anything else than trying to damage him.

Quite frankly that probably applies regardless of whether the enemy has witch hunter.

An enemy standing right next to you is your worst case scenario. You have one line of spells designed to help deal with that situation (Mojo Blade) but the scarcity of that kind of power compared to the rest of your arsenal should speak volumes about how the witch doctor is expected to perform.

I'll be adding more tools in your kit for keeping enemies at a distance and defending yourself when they get too close (key word: defense).

There's more changes in the upcoming patch, but I'll wait for One-Eyed Jack to post patch notes before I weigh in on those other changes.
This clears things up a lot, though I do still have a couple questions. First, does this mean an aoe not focused on the witch hunter will go through at full power as it had in the past? And second, would you be able to see about making the mojo blade line of attacks ignore the reduce in damage, since they can't be activated unless the enemy is adjacent and their main purpose is to be a melee defense power?
Developer
stormy quentin ver... on Oct 17, 2016 wrote:
One tool that we already have is charm. Given this change in with hunter, I think it would be even more important for this to be allowed in PVP again
As a reminder, Charm is not allowed in PvP because it grants an unfair advantage based on which player acts first.

I could turn it on again but I don't think it would be acceptable for long.

Obviously I'd prefer to see it fixed, if I could, but the tech to do so is tricky and fixing it would be time consuming. Our engineers' efforts are better spent on things that improve the game in more dramatic ways and preferably for ALL players.

I'm not taking Charm off my "wish list." I will take another look at it and see if I can think of a way around the combat engine limitations.

Would you be able to see about making the mojo blade line of attacks ignore the reduce in damage, since they can't be activated unless the enemy is adjacent and their main purpose is to be a melee defense power?

Mojo Blade already ignores armor, doesn't trigger melee epics, its damage starts at 2x your spell power, and it is boosted by WILL. I'd say it's doing what it is supposed to do.
Lieutenant
Dec 19, 2011
133
TalonThundercloud on Oct 17, 2016 wrote:
This clears things up a lot, though I do still have a couple questions. First, does this mean an aoe not focused on the witch hunter will go through at full power as it had in the past? And second, would you be able to see about making the mojo blade line of attacks ignore the reduce in damage, since they can't be activated unless the enemy is adjacent and their main purpose is to be a melee defense power?
That is a great idea. The power is almost useless as it is now against witch hunter.
Developer
TechnomagePvP on Oct 17, 2016 wrote:
Readied spell is new meta, calling it.
Prior to the adjacency requirement, that would have popped the damage reduction and put it on cool down, leaving the witch hunter vulnerable on your turn.

I'm surprised at how little attention was paid to the talents that went into this last update. Lots of concern over what was seemingly lost; not much said about what was gained.
Ensign
Jul 12, 2016
41
Ratbeard on Oct 17, 2016 wrote:
As a reminder, Charm is not allowed in PvP because it grants an unfair advantage based on which player acts first.

I could turn it on again but I don't think it would be acceptable for long.

Obviously I'd prefer to see it fixed, if I could, but the tech to do so is tricky and fixing it would be time consuming. Our engineers' efforts are better spent on things that improve the game in more dramatic ways and preferably for ALL players.

I'm not taking Charm off my "wish list." I will take another look at it and see if I can think of a way around the combat engine limitations.

Would you be able to see about making the mojo blade line of attacks ignore the reduce in damage, since they can't be activated unless the enemy is adjacent and their main purpose is to be a melee defense power?

Mojo Blade already ignores armor, doesn't trigger melee epics, its damage starts at 2x your spell power, and it is boosted by WILL. I'd say it's doing what it is supposed to do.
Mojo Blade already ignores armor, doesn't trigger melee epics, its damage starts at 2x your spell power, and it is boosted by WILL. I'd say it's doing what it is supposed to do.

Well, these rules stay the same for any witch power. Yet what makes a mojo reaver special is that I can rely on it doing 1,000 damage minimum to punish a melee unit for coming close. However, with the witch hunt reduce, its purpose is severely nerfed, now relegating it to the role of my kill guaranteer for a companion that I just need gone. Otherwise versus the pirate, I'm much better off using a mojo storm, (provided aoes don't trigger the reduce as of this new patch) which will easily do more without requiring me to take extra witch hunt dmg + chains as well.
Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
163
Ratbeard on Oct 17, 2016 wrote:
Prior to the adjacency requirement, that would have popped the damage reduction and put it on cool down, leaving the witch hunter vulnerable on your turn.

I'm surprised at how little attention was paid to the talents that went into this last update. Lots of concern over what was seemingly lost; not much said about what was gained.
Well what can I say, I'm innovative unlike Wolfy here. Jkjk Wolfy Ily bby <3

I do think Witch Hunter shouldn't trigger chains still, I feel like it's really the only type of universal "Auto-Win" mechanic in the game. I mean I'm personally fine with Witch hunter right now other than it triggering chains. If it didn't trigger chains it would be a fair mechanic because of Readied spell just simply becoming the new meta.
Lieutenant
Dec 19, 2011
133
Ratbeard on Oct 17, 2016 wrote:
Prior to the adjacency requirement, that would have popped the damage reduction and put it on cool down, leaving the witch hunter vulnerable on your turn.

I'm surprised at how little attention was paid to the talents that went into this last update. Lots of concern over what was seemingly lost; not much said about what was gained.
Readied spell has very poor accuracy, and can be used as a tool to trigger witch hunter chains from muskets. Also, it doesnt work from 2 squares away like overwatch does, so it is less likely to trigger anyway. I have readied spell 2 trained, it is helpful sometimes, but not often enough to be a gamechanger in my experience.
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