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Proposed adjustment to Firstmate's Boon

AuthorMessage
Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
I don't wish to make this a big thing but I wanted the pvp community's opinion on a possible "nerf" to firstmate's boon.

Instead of -50% weapon power to the pirate, I think it would be more reasonable to make it +25-50% incoming damage to the pirate instead. This keeps the idea behind boon constant, yet balances the pros and cons by making the privateer more vulnerable as opposed to less "powerful".

While this tweak in the long run might not visibly make much of a difference, it is much more ideal in terms of risk/reward in my opinion and would address another generalized "unbalance" of the current metagame.

Thoughts?
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Wolf SkullRider on Nov 30, 2016 wrote:
I don't wish to make this a big thing but I wanted the pvp community's opinion on a possible "nerf" to firstmate's boon.

Instead of -50% weapon power to the pirate, I think it would be more reasonable to make it +25-50% incoming damage to the pirate instead. This keeps the idea behind boon constant, yet balances the pros and cons by making the privateer more vulnerable as opposed to less "powerful".

While this tweak in the long run might not visibly make much of a difference, it is much more ideal in terms of risk/reward in my opinion and would address another generalized "unbalance" of the current metagame.

Thoughts?
Since Privateers very rarely attack, then that -50% weapon power ( is it for just that round? ) isn't at all a factor. I believe your proposal of extra damage coming into a Privateer would just make them more vulnerable. I don't think First Mates Boon is at all unbalanced as it is.
Lieutenant
Aug 17, 2014
122
Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
163
Boon already has risk vs reward. You're investing EVERYTHING into that single unit you rush into battle. If you're a skilled player you will be able to constantly threaten and punish Boon rushes and trade 1 for 1. If you aren't able to do that maybe you need to adjust your strategy or farm for Sprocket's Key for that Purge it gives you.

Most of the time it's used on mostly Nausica with Goronado possibly, killing a Nausica 1 for 1 is always a good trade so it's fine if that Nausica killed yours if you're able to Purge and kill it yourself.

Alongside that is the fact that the most common scenario is like I said, a Nausica trying to trade and kill the enemy Nausica with Boon and Fort on. With that being said you can easily increase your chances of survival by giving your own Nausica True Grit 3. Really I see nothing wrong with Boon. Yes it's annoying but it has its own downsides and requires planning and for the opponent to give away a free as well as safe target. So if you struggle vs Boon, maybe try playing around it and bringing tech gear or comps to avoid it being an issue.

Just to point out, Quick Harry Abbott another Buckler like you was able to win 2 times against my Privateer in the recent central rules tour even though I used Boon. These scenario's were the most common throughout all my games including vs Epicbot as well. They were able to play around it quiet well making it in a couple of my matches a waste of a gear slot sometimes. It's a very strong power, that is a fact. But you can play around it, and it's in that situation where mentally it is extremely powerful forcing your opponent to play around it, like purge, but it isn't impossible or non-interactive. Purge is an option and if you're not bringing it vs Privateers you deserve to lose for not keeping it in mind considering how popular both the class and power itself is. Plus you're a Buckler, you can always Snowball and kill all the useful units to use Boon on before they can use it, so ya.
Admiral
Jul 07, 2013
1124
*lays face down on ground*

Virtuous Dante Ramsey
Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
163
TechnomagePvP on Dec 11, 2016 wrote:
Boon already has risk vs reward. You're investing EVERYTHING into that single unit you rush into battle. If you're a skilled player you will be able to constantly threaten and punish Boon rushes and trade 1 for 1. If you aren't able to do that maybe you need to adjust your strategy or farm for Sprocket's Key for that Purge it gives you.

Most of the time it's used on mostly Nausica with Goronado possibly, killing a Nausica 1 for 1 is always a good trade so it's fine if that Nausica killed yours if you're able to Purge and kill it yourself.

Alongside that is the fact that the most common scenario is like I said, a Nausica trying to trade and kill the enemy Nausica with Boon and Fort on. With that being said you can easily increase your chances of survival by giving your own Nausica True Grit 3. Really I see nothing wrong with Boon. Yes it's annoying but it has its own downsides and requires planning and for the opponent to give away a free as well as safe target. So if you struggle vs Boon, maybe try playing around it and bringing tech gear or comps to avoid it being an issue.

Just to point out, Quick Harry Abbott another Buckler like you was able to win 2 times against my Privateer in the recent central rules tour even though I used Boon. These scenario's were the most common throughout all my games including vs Epicbot as well. They were able to play around it quiet well making it in a couple of my matches a waste of a gear slot sometimes. It's a very strong power, that is a fact. But you can play around it, and it's in that situation where mentally it is extremely powerful forcing your opponent to play around it, like purge, but it isn't impossible or non-interactive. Purge is an option and if you're not bringing it vs Privateers you deserve to lose for not keeping it in mind considering how popular both the class and power itself is. Plus you're a Buckler, you can always Snowball and kill all the useful units to use Boon on before they can use it, so ya.
KI can your mods please stop editing my post to what they "think" I'm saying. Xompa? What is a Xompa? I said Comps
Administrator
TechnomagePvP on Dec 13, 2016 wrote:
KI can your mods please stop editing my post to what they "think" I'm saying. Xompa? What is a Xompa? I said Comps
I think you're a victim of autocorrect, maybe? No mods edited your post previously; however, I did just go back and edit your post based on your comment.
*One-Eyed Jack, Your Pirate101 Community Manager*
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
TechnomagePvP on Dec 13, 2016 wrote:
KI can your mods please stop editing my post to what they "think" I'm saying. Xompa? What is a Xompa? I said Comps
Really Techno, as OEJ said the Mods don't correct our spelling and grammar ( although sometimes I wish they did ).
Just look at the word "Xompa" you'll see that the X is near the C and the S is near the A. You were typing too fast and didn't proof read before submitting. ( This also happens to me. )
Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
TechnomagePvP on Dec 11, 2016 wrote:
Boon already has risk vs reward. You're investing EVERYTHING into that single unit you rush into battle. If you're a skilled player you will be able to constantly threaten and punish Boon rushes and trade 1 for 1. If you aren't able to do that maybe you need to adjust your strategy or farm for Sprocket's Key for that Purge it gives you.

Most of the time it's used on mostly Nausica with Goronado possibly, killing a Nausica 1 for 1 is always a good trade so it's fine if that Nausica killed yours if you're able to Purge and kill it yourself.

Alongside that is the fact that the most common scenario is like I said, a Nausica trying to trade and kill the enemy Nausica with Boon and Fort on. With that being said you can easily increase your chances of survival by giving your own Nausica True Grit 3. Really I see nothing wrong with Boon. Yes it's annoying but it has its own downsides and requires planning and for the opponent to give away a free as well as safe target. So if you struggle vs Boon, maybe try playing around it and bringing tech gear or comps to avoid it being an issue.

Just to point out, Quick Harry Abbott another Buckler like you was able to win 2 times against my Privateer in the recent central rules tour even though I used Boon. These scenario's were the most common throughout all my games including vs Epicbot as well. They were able to play around it quiet well making it in a couple of my matches a waste of a gear slot sometimes. It's a very strong power, that is a fact. But you can play around it, and it's in that situation where mentally it is extremely powerful forcing your opponent to play around it, like purge, but it isn't impossible or non-interactive. Purge is an option and if you're not bringing it vs Privateers you deserve to lose for not keeping it in mind considering how popular both the class and power itself is. Plus you're a Buckler, you can always Snowball and kill all the useful units to use Boon on before they can use it, so ya.
Lol thanks Tech for your lovely counter that I've heard for maybe the 5th time now.

I did my best to not be too specific in the original post as it was only an idea I wanted some opinions on. Like everyone else, I have ended up adapting my play style to better deal with boon. It is not that I have an issue fighting it, it's just that I feel the pros outweigh the cons just a little too much. I certainly understand what you are saying though and you're absolutely right with their being so many factors in each and every match. I still don't totally agree with your reasoning but I'll fold on this one. It was only an idea that I wanted some feedback on so I'll take your opinion for what it's worth and consider that nothing might need be changed.
Petty Officer
Jan 03, 2010
95
Wolf SkullRider on Nov 30, 2016 wrote:
I don't wish to make this a big thing but I wanted the pvp community's opinion on a possible "nerf" to firstmate's boon.

Instead of -50% weapon power to the pirate, I think it would be more reasonable to make it +25-50% incoming damage to the pirate instead. This keeps the idea behind boon constant, yet balances the pros and cons by making the privateer more vulnerable as opposed to less "powerful".

While this tweak in the long run might not visibly make much of a difference, it is much more ideal in terms of risk/reward in my opinion and would address another generalized "unbalance" of the current metagame.

Thoughts?
After some thought and talk with others in the pvp community, I want to revisit an idea to adjust firstmates boon.

The -50% weapon power is honestly a joke when you consider the drawbacks to how destructive boon can be, there genuinely isn't a valid reason to argue otherwise. Something is "unbalanced" when the pros significantly outweigh the cons and that is the case here with firstmate's boon. I realize how my original idea of a self inflicted focus fire might have been a tad off the deep end so I have a new proposal.

In place of the -50% weapon power, this power could give -50% spell power for the allotted time. Now I'm sure that I've already turned some of you away but I ask you all to consider this in terms of tempo swing and amount of resources. With the reduced spell power, healing the booned companion to keep them alive for the duration of its effects won't be as reliable. They won't be able to use a 3k absorb their forted booned nausica right after charging her across the map.

Now yes, "you can just purge it all off". The issue with this however is that while it may be the practical response, it ultimately loses you much some needed ground to stay at par with the privateer. They immediately take a vast lead in the resource war which is the most crucial factor in every single match. Any good privateer would know to have another companion in movement range of the enemy in this exact scenario to take advantage of and cripple the no longer protected enemy. This provides for a sizeable shift in tempo that the privateer can easily capitalize on, even when disregarding boon's most ideal counter.

If we are being completely realistic, the -50% weapon power is severely underwhelming in terms of providing a reasonable pro/con distribution to boon (especially when compared to the counters/balances of other game changing powers). To put things in perspective, I'm not saying "OP, I'm stating "this is an imbalance".

Some supportive feedback on this would much appreciated.
Lieutenant
Nov 26, 2010
163
Wolf SkullRider on Jan 23, 2017 wrote:
After some thought and talk with others in the pvp community, I want to revisit an idea to adjust firstmates boon.

The -50% weapon power is honestly a joke when you consider the drawbacks to how destructive boon can be, there genuinely isn't a valid reason to argue otherwise. Something is "unbalanced" when the pros significantly outweigh the cons and that is the case here with firstmate's boon. I realize how my original idea of a self inflicted focus fire might have been a tad off the deep end so I have a new proposal.

In place of the -50% weapon power, this power could give -50% spell power for the allotted time. Now I'm sure that I've already turned some of you away but I ask you all to consider this in terms of tempo swing and amount of resources. With the reduced spell power, healing the booned companion to keep them alive for the duration of its effects won't be as reliable. They won't be able to use a 3k absorb their forted booned nausica right after charging her across the map.

Now yes, "you can just purge it all off". The issue with this however is that while it may be the practical response, it ultimately loses you much some needed ground to stay at par with the privateer. They immediately take a vast lead in the resource war which is the most crucial factor in every single match. Any good privateer would know to have another companion in movement range of the enemy in this exact scenario to take advantage of and cripple the no longer protected enemy. This provides for a sizeable shift in tempo that the privateer can easily capitalize on, even when disregarding boon's most ideal counter.

If we are being completely realistic, the -50% weapon power is severely underwhelming in terms of providing a reasonable pro/con distribution to boon (especially when compared to the counters/balances of other game changing powers). To put things in perspective, I'm not saying "OP, I'm stating "this is an imbalance".

Some supportive feedback on this would much appreciated.
From a design aspect that makes no sense. The idea of Boon is you give up your weapon power to a unit. Changing what it reduces from a balance perspective is fine but you gotta remember this game isn't designed around PvP. Boon is a great example of that as while it's unbalanced for PvP it is designed to make PvE easier as well as reduce the grind by being able to push the entire strategy of just relying on one companion that Privateers normally do when questing. So from a design stand point it doesn't really make any sense on changing it to decrease your spell power when increasing a companions damage... If it increases the units spell power instead then ya that would make sense. But changing a power completely isn't the right answer either if that was the case.

So while I'm all for this idea on the balance perspective of things, I can't agree with it on a design stand point.
Admiral
Jun 02, 2013
1472
How about the whole team loses weapon power, even in a 4v4 it's about that one guy you are buffing

Or how about just the privateer crew including the captain loses weapon power, as the first ate would have to be stronger than the rest of his captains crew?
Ensign
Jul 12, 2016
41
TechnomagePvP on Jan 25, 2017 wrote:
From a design aspect that makes no sense. The idea of Boon is you give up your weapon power to a unit. Changing what it reduces from a balance perspective is fine but you gotta remember this game isn't designed around PvP. Boon is a great example of that as while it's unbalanced for PvP it is designed to make PvE easier as well as reduce the grind by being able to push the entire strategy of just relying on one companion that Privateers normally do when questing. So from a design stand point it doesn't really make any sense on changing it to decrease your spell power when increasing a companions damage... If it increases the units spell power instead then ya that would make sense. But changing a power completely isn't the right answer either if that was the case.

So while I'm all for this idea on the balance perspective of things, I can't agree with it on a design stand point.
If the only thing in the way of changing the pirate's reduced stat is a design issue, this idea is actually brilliant. While switching the weapon power reduce to a spell power reduce definitely is a change that may seem abstract at first, consider this: Boon is an incredibly powerful buff that presents the booned companion the potential to one round 1 or even 2 enemy companions, depending on the chain that follows, especially when combined with a high haste unit like Goronado or Nausica. Boon forces the opponent to purge, and if it's not up, they can be out of luck. Such a potent power could be seen within its lore as needing a massive amount of spell power, a privateer's most needed stat, to be used and converted to weapon power in order to give a companion such a powerful boost. We've seen this concept of a stat other than weapon power being used to determine a WP buff's potential before, with Fighting Fervor being dependent on will power. As will partially affects the damage dealt by spell powered attacks, and boon can be seen as an upgraded version of Fighting Fervor, using the more powerful spell power stat to affect boon's damage, and having that be halved upon the use of boon actually does make sense design wise.

In both PvE and PvP, this also makes sense. PvE is increasingly based around SP- Scratch buffs, Revives, Valor's Armors, Big guns, etc. Rarely does the privy ever use an assassin's strike on the enemy. Halving the SP of the privy for 2 rounds won't impair the privy much at all given the frequency of scratch buffs giving such massive SP boosts regardless. In PvP, it is undeniable that the WP reduce does nearly nothing, as privateers usually save melee attacks for late game, and use boon during early game. As it is now, boon can also open up the opponent to a scratch buffed bomb immediately, just like pre-nerf BoD. Boon would be much more balanced with a SP debuff, and would require the privy to think before they boon.

So please consider.