In W101, class(school) balance is... not that good. Ice/Balance is very unbalanced (the irony) and storm is VERY weak. I don't know about P101 though. From my research, I guess is too strong and is too weak. Which I don't like, because even though I'm a buckler I am generally a ranged player and I want to make a WD for my next char. But if they are weak, I guess I have to go with . (Tried Privateer too, I like their style but I want to try something new too. I have the least experience with .)

This is just my research though, so how is class balance now? I need to hear the opinions of veterans.

Stormy Isaac, Level 61

Yes, witch is the weakest, and it's not remotely close. In a no rules match (where, for examples, Old Scratch and summons like trees are allowed), privy is by far the strongest class. Again, it's not particularly close.

In an environment with rules, privy is still the best class, but it's by a smaller (but still sizeable) margin. However, privy requires tight play to use to its maximum potential. Mistakes on the privateer's end are often very punishing, particularly if they occur in the early game. However, they have the best protection and recovery (4-5 forts, 1-2 absorbs, 5-6 large single heals), some of the most potent buffs (Battle Zeal can single-handedly wipe out an opposing team), all while being able to have enough attacks from gear to efficiently close out a match (2 assassins, 1 brutal charge, other miscellaneous attacks).

In an environment with rules, the middle tier is formed by the other 3 classes (musket, bucc, buckler). These classes are relatively close to each other in terms of balance. However, I think bucc is a little stronger than musket, which in turn is a little stronger than buckler.

Bucc is a class that, imo, is the easiest to get away with mistakes on. The power of a good relent + blade chain can often overcome an early blunder.

Musket, like privy, requires tight play to win consistently. Their pirate is rather fragile, but they are theoretically very effective at preventing an opponent from waging an effective attack (through slows, traps, bombs, and overwatch chains).

Buckler, my main class, is probably the best balanced class in an environment with rules. It has nothing blatantly overpowered and it's relatively intuitive to learn. Even though it's arguably the 'second worst' class (take this with a grain of salt since the middle 3 classes are so close to each other) it's still very much competitive.

So, the top 4 classes are very much competitive with each other. Although privy is top dog, a skilled player of another class will completely destroy a lesser-skilled privy. Unlike wiz's top tier schools, privy doesn't have any tools that are so brainlessly easy to use that they all but guarantee victory.

Witch on the other hand, is essentially hopeless. Witch Hunter has made the class unplayably bad, so your only real way of winning with witch is to a) hope your opponent doesn't have witch hunter, b) doesn't know how witch hunter works, or c) blunders so much for you to win anyways.

TL:DR

• If you get good at a non-witch class, you'll be able to compete with pretty much anyone (I'd recommend checking fansites like Final Bastion or central to learn how to play well)
• Witch is only viable in PvE until Witch Hunter is fixed (among other things)

Matthew525011 on Jul 24, 2019 wrote:

Yes, witch is the weakest, and it's not remotely close. In a no rules match (where, for examples, Old Scratch and summons like trees are allowed), privy is by far the strongest class. Again, it's not particularly close.

In an environment with rules, privy is still the best class, but it's by a smaller (but still sizeable) margin. However, privy requires tight play to use to its maximum potential. Mistakes on the privateer's end are often very punishing, particularly if they occur in the early game. However, they have the best protection and recovery (4-5 forts, 1-2 absorbs, 5-6 large single heals), some of the most potent buffs (Battle Zeal can single-handedly wipe out an opposing team), all while being able to have enough attacks from gear to efficiently close out a match (2 assassins, 1 brutal charge, other miscellaneous attacks).

In an environment with rules, the middle tier is formed by the other 3 classes (musket, bucc, buckler). These classes are relatively close to each other in terms of balance. However, I think bucc is a little stronger than musket, which in turn is a little stronger than buckler.

Bucc is a class that, imo, is the easiest to get away with mistakes on. The power of a good relent + blade chain can often overcome an early blunder.

Musket, like privy, requires tight play to win consistently. Their pirate is rather fragile, but they are theoretically very effective at preventing an opponent from waging an effective attack (through slows, traps, bombs, and overwatch chains).

Buckler, my main class, is probably the best balanced class in an environment with rules. It has nothing blatantly overpowered and it's relatively intuitive to learn. Even though it's arguably the 'second worst' class (take this with a grain of salt since the middle 3 classes are so close to each other) it's still very much competitive.

So, the top 4 classes are very much competitive with each other. Although privy is top dog, a skilled player of another class will completely destroy a lesser-skilled privy. Unlike wiz's top tier schools, privy doesn't have any tools that are so brainlessly easy to use that they all but guarantee victory.

Witch on the other hand, is essentially hopeless. Witch Hunter has made the class unplayably bad, so your only real way of winning with witch is to a) hope your opponent doesn't have witch hunter, b) doesn't know how witch hunter works, or c) blunders so much for you to win anyways.

TL:DR

• If you get good at a non-witch class, you'll be able to compete with pretty much anyone (I'd recommend checking fansites like Final Bastion or central to learn how to play well)
• Witch is only viable in PvE until Witch Hunter is fixed (among other things)

IN SHORT: I have a buckler but he won't be my main. Can I win against a SKILLED Privy as a skilled or , or am I simply forced to make a just to be able to win against good Privies?

I'm really sad about Witch's position, and I guess my dream of making a witch is shattered now. Thank you for your honest response though.

Yeah, I'm a buckler now, but I don't relate a lot to its playstyle, honestly. I think I will either go (the second most familiar class to me regarding my playstyle -after witch-) or (for trying something new as musket was the first class I bought a member on) I might be forced to make a to get to the top though. I don't hate the class, but I've already tried it so not really my preferance.

Either way, this char will probably not be my main since I made the mistake of not choosing Krokotopia-and I don't like the class more than others. (Im not sure if Skull Island is THAT pathetic of a choice though)

I get your point about someone from the 3 middle classes being able to win against a Privy, but what about a Skilled vs Skilled -- Matchup? Would the Privy always (or %70+ of the time) win? Am I forced to make a Privy just to survive against SKILLED Privateers?

Thanks for your input, I'm already a follower of Final Bastion, and not so much of a follower of Central. I'll keep your tips in mind, I'll have many articles to read once I decide upon my main!

Stormy Isaac, the one that writes way too much- Level 63

Matthew525011 on Jul 24, 2019 wrote:

Yes, witch is the weakest, and it's not remotely close. In a no rules match (where, for examples, Old Scratch and summons like trees are allowed), privy is by far the strongest class. Again, it's not particularly close.

In an environment with rules, privy is still the best class, but it's by a smaller (but still sizeable) margin. However, privy requires tight play to use to its maximum potential. Mistakes on the privateer's end are often very punishing, particularly if they occur in the early game. However, they have the best protection and recovery (4-5 forts, 1-2 absorbs, 5-6 large single heals), some of the most potent buffs (Battle Zeal can single-handedly wipe out an opposing team), all while being able to have enough attacks from gear to efficiently close out a match (2 assassins, 1 brutal charge, other miscellaneous attacks).

In an environment with rules, the middle tier is formed by the other 3 classes (musket, bucc, buckler). These classes are relatively close to each other in terms of balance. However, I think bucc is a little stronger than musket, which in turn is a little stronger than buckler.

Bucc is a class that, imo, is the easiest to get away with mistakes on. The power of a good relent + blade chain can often overcome an early blunder.

Musket, like privy, requires tight play to win consistently. Their pirate is rather fragile, but they are theoretically very effective at preventing an opponent from waging an effective attack (through slows, traps, bombs, and overwatch chains).

Buckler, my main class, is probably the best balanced class in an environment with rules. It has nothing blatantly overpowered and it's relatively intuitive to learn. Even though it's arguably the 'second worst' class (take this with a grain of salt since the middle 3 classes are so close to each other) it's still very much competitive.

So, the top 4 classes are very much competitive with each other. Although privy is top dog, a skilled player of another class will completely destroy a lesser-skilled privy. Unlike wiz's top tier schools, privy doesn't have any tools that are so brainlessly easy to use that they all but guarantee victory.

Witch on the other hand, is essentially hopeless. Witch Hunter has made the class unplayably bad, so your only real way of winning with witch is to a) hope your opponent doesn't have witch hunter, b) doesn't know how witch hunter works, or c) blunders so much for you to win anyways.

TL:DR

• If you get good at a non-witch class, you'll be able to compete with pretty much anyone (I'd recommend checking fansites like Final Bastion or central to learn how to play well)
• Witch is only viable in PvE until Witch Hunter is fixed (among other things)

witch hunter would be so easy to fix too, simply disallow its use with any weapon type that doesn't involve a staff... if you want witch hunter you should have to use a staff, a shooty staffy weapon, or a melee staffy weapon though if your range is 1 it shouldn't matter as they most likely will be casting at you further away than right next to you (if witch hunter casts further than a range of 1 when using just a sword then that really does need to be fixed, but I don't know if that is the case or not)

Wiwade on Jul 24, 2019 wrote:

IN SHORT: I have a buckler but he won't be my main. Can I win against a SKILLED Privy as a skilled or , or am I simply forced to make a just to be able to win against good Privies?

I'm really sad about Witch's position, and I guess my dream of making a witch is shattered now. Thank you for your honest response though.

Yeah, I'm a buckler now, but I don't relate a lot to its playstyle, honestly. I think I will either go (the second most familiar class to me regarding my playstyle -after witch-) or (for trying something new as musket was the first class I bought a member on) I might be forced to make a to get to the top though. I don't hate the class, but I've already tried it so not really my preferance.

Either way, this char will probably not be my main since I made the mistake of not choosing Krokotopia-and I don't like the class more than others. (Im not sure if Skull Island is THAT pathetic of a choice though)

I get your point about someone from the 3 middle classes being able to win against a Privy, but what about a Skilled vs Skilled -- Matchup? Would the Privy always (or %70+ of the time) win? Am I forced to make a Privy just to survive against SKILLED Privateers?

Thanks for your input, I'm already a follower of Final Bastion, and not so much of a follower of Central. I'll keep your tips in mind, I'll have many articles to read once I decide upon my main!

Stormy Isaac, the one that writes way too much- Level 63

To put it bluntly, there aren't many (arguably any) active and truly skilled privateers. Theoretically, a skilled privy would be favored against the other 3 classes, assuming an equally skilled opponent. In an environment with rules, I don't think the privy is winning at a 70%+ rate though.

Matthew525011 on Jul 25, 2019 wrote:

To put it bluntly, there aren't many (arguably any) active and truly skilled privateers. Theoretically, a skilled privy would be favored against the other 3 classes, assuming an equally skilled opponent. In an environment with rules, I don't think the privy is winning at a 70%+ rate though.

OK, I'm kinda starting to research now then. I should probably clarify I will be fighting in an environment without rules though, if that changes anything. (Most likely Ranked, I don't know if it's dead though, never did ranked before)

Thank you for the advice again.

Stormy Isaac, Level 63

Takhethis on Jul 31, 2019 wrote:

I don't really like privy so much as they lack attacks. Sure they have repel boarders and hold the line and can get relentless three and burst fire three but if they go on the offensive or are approached without setting off their defense talents which more skilled players are well aware of how to get around they simply lack attacks. As such I can't rate them at the top of the pvp list. The only thing I really enjoy about them is they are easily boosted by scratch and they have Emmet but Emmet. The amount of cards they have means nothing if they are killed way before they can play them.

They don't have attacks? That's patently absurd. The standard privy loadout has 2 assassins and a brutal, plus 3 big guns, a haywire strike, and a surge of technomancy. This is more than enough to kill with, particularly if you use your buffed companions effectively. They also have the best offensive buff for companions in battle zeal. Zeal alone eviscerates melee players and their teams. The general gameplan for a privy goes like this:

• Use zeal to kill the opposing team (maybe using Emmet to get a movement advantage to apply early pressure)
• Use the remaining companions, your reduce, and your Surge to force out and/or remove your opponent's protection, all while staying protected and at good health (you have Soul Shroud, 5 forts, an absorb, 3 revives, and 1-2 rallies to do this). You can use an assassin if they're underprotected or at mid-health and only 1 round left on a fort
• Once you've grinded out their resources, use your remaining assassins to kill.

There is no reason for a privy to die early (especially with Contessa's Gallant being a thing) unless they seriously misplay and given an opponent too many attacking opportunities.

Matthew525011 on Jul 31, 2019 wrote:

They don't have attacks? That's patently absurd. The standard privy loadout has 2 assassins and a brutal, plus 3 big guns, a haywire strike, and a surge of technomancy. This is more than enough to kill with, particularly if you use your buffed companions effectively. They also have the best offensive buff for companions in battle zeal. Zeal alone eviscerates melee players and their teams. The general gameplan for a privy goes like this:

• Use zeal to kill the opposing team (maybe using Emmet to get a movement advantage to apply early pressure)
• Use the remaining companions, your reduce, and your Surge to force out and/or remove your opponent's protection, all while staying protected and at good health (you have Soul Shroud, 5 forts, an absorb, 3 revives, and 1-2 rallies to do this). You can use an assassin if they're underprotected or at mid-health and only 1 round left on a fort
• Once you've grinded out their resources, use your remaining assassins to kill.

There is no reason for a privy to die early (especially with Contessa's Gallant being a thing) unless they seriously misplay and given an opponent too many attacking opportunities.

They don't have chain attacks, I could care less about the number of cards they have. If your battles constantly run out of cards in each others hands you are doing something wrong.

Matthew525011 on Jul 24, 2019 wrote:

Yes, witch is the weakest, and it's not remotely close. In a no rules match (where, for examples, Old Scratch and summons like trees are allowed), privy is by far the strongest class. Again, it's not particularly close.

In an environment with rules, privy is still the best class, but it's by a smaller (but still sizeable) margin. However, privy requires tight play to use to its maximum potential. Mistakes on the privateer's end are often very punishing, particularly if they occur in the early game. However, they have the best protection and recovery (4-5 forts, 1-2 absorbs, 5-6 large single heals), some of the most potent buffs (Battle Zeal can single-handedly wipe out an opposing team), all while being able to have enough attacks from gear to efficiently close out a match (2 assassins, 1 brutal charge, other miscellaneous attacks).

In an environment with rules, the middle tier is formed by the other 3 classes (musket, bucc, buckler). These classes are relatively close to each other in terms of balance. However, I think bucc is a little stronger than musket, which in turn is a little stronger than buckler.

Bucc is a class that, imo, is the easiest to get away with mistakes on. The power of a good relent + blade chain can often overcome an early blunder.

Musket, like privy, requires tight play to win consistently. Their pirate is rather fragile, but they are theoretically very effective at preventing an opponent from waging an effective attack (through slows, traps, bombs, and overwatch chains).

Buckler, my main class, is probably the best balanced class in an environment with rules. It has nothing blatantly overpowered and it's relatively intuitive to learn. Even though it's arguably the 'second worst' class (take this with a grain of salt since the middle 3 classes are so close to each other) it's still very much competitive.

So, the top 4 classes are very much competitive with each other. Although privy is top dog, a skilled player of another class will completely destroy a lesser-skilled privy. Unlike wiz's top tier schools, privy doesn't have any tools that are so brainlessly easy to use that they all but guarantee victory.

Witch on the other hand, is essentially hopeless. Witch Hunter has made the class unplayably bad, so your only real way of winning with witch is to a) hope your opponent doesn't have witch hunter, b) doesn't know how witch hunter works, or c) blunders so much for you to win anyways.

TL:DR

• If you get good at a non-witch class, you'll be able to compete with pretty much anyone (I'd recommend checking fansites like Final Bastion or central to learn how to play well)
• Witch is only viable in PvE until Witch Hunter is fixed (among other things)

Eh, witchdoctors get a ridiculous amount of summons though. If you make a witchdoctor class trained around summons, you can have up to 17 on the battlefield (that's my record). Not even including companions. So honestly yes they are unbalanced, but they are unbalanced in a strong way.

anecorbie on Oct 28, 2019 wrote:

Let's look at those summons - they naturally train 4, three of those are single summons & Stygian Chorus, all of them very weak.
Then I suppose you're counting the top gear for WD The Imperial Robes of Moo Manchu & The Nefarious Staff.
In PVP those robe summons are now linked to the Will of the user. I've never heard of a WD getting the full summons of 9, mostly 3 -5; and once I saw a post where the WD didn't get even one! While difficult to fight, most players are powerful enough to defeat them.
The Nefarious Staff gives 9 scorpions and they're very easy to beat.
So WD summoning 17 ( as you say ) has just wasted 4 - 5 turns. They can summon all they want but those summons aren't going to help them win.

That's only if they are alone. Remember, these summons are distractions. It allows for you to get hits in with your companions and your player. You basically have a moving army distracting them if you use summons as well as you're companions.

chiliman05 on Nov 2, 2019 wrote:

So yes, if the summons aren't going to destroy the entire enemy team by themselves, but with help they can.

The only summons that are problematic are the main summons from gear- Angry Orchard (Trees), Terror Cotta Troupe (Cottas), and Nefarious Staff (Scorps). Trained summons aren't very good, as they have low health, no powers, and are summoned in batches of no more than 5.

chiliman05 on Nov 2, 2019 wrote:

So yes, if the summons aren't going to destroy the entire enemy team by themselves, but with help they can.

So, you're speaking about ( team ) practice PVP in the Spar Chamber and possibly PVE situations. Have you seen what the Nef-5 can do to either the Scorpions or Cotta; not to mention what happens in the Kane fight?

chiliman05 on Nov 4, 2019 wrote:

Yes but they are able to hold off the enemy long enough to allow your companions and allies to do some damage. All of them are very good, put simply, at dying for you.

Forgive the semi-snarky comment, but I don't think 2 single melee summons (the skeletal pirate and wyvern) that have ~1000 health, do ~100 damage per attack, have terrible stats unless scratch-buffed, and only one epic talent are particularly good at "dying for you." If you summon them early, any sensible opponent will just ignore them and let their pirate's/companions' epics or their incidental AOE damage take the summons out. Even the skeletal corsair and Stygian Chorus aren't much better. The corsair does solid damage and represents a legit threat if you can't hide and are running low on shields, sure, but that assumes that you've scratch-buffed the corsair. Otherwise, a single round spent hitting with a single unit it will probably be sufficient to kill it. Stygian Chorus is obnoxious if scratch-buffed, sure, but it's not broken or game-winningly so. And if it's not scratch-buffed, the chorus is a complete meme. A single first strike+riposte, venge + relent, or ow + burst is sufficient to kill one, and their stats are so mediocre that you're very likely to not miss.

The trained summons are just not worth wasting a tempo on most of the time. At best, you get a scenario where you trade 1-for-1. You spend a round summoning, they spend a round killing the summon. More often than not though, if you use a trained summon, your opponent will probably just ignore it, and let their epics take care of it. Congrats! You've just wasted a round for *maybe* 100-200 points of chip damage if your summon got a hit off before it died.

Don't get me wrong, the main summons from gear *are* problematic (because you can't trade with them at a 1-for-1 or better rate), but trained summons are a joke.