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Please Do Not Nerf Captain Blood's Jacket

AuthorMessage
Ensign
Oct 26, 2019
7
I noticed that a developer recently said they would be nerfing Blood's Jacket. I don't think this would benefit the game in any way and it seems rather pointless. The jacket has been the same for years now and literally no one asked for this. We have persistently asked for story-line updates and for glitches to be fixed and I'm frankly irritated that this is what is focused on. I'm not sure if the KI team will really be going through with this, but since they value members' opinions, this is mine. Instead of nerfing the jacket, maybe its drop rate could be reduced instead? The Obsidian version has a much higher drop rate than the other. It seems that many more people have their hands on the jacket. I also feel bad for the people who literally farmed it for YEARS at Miranda. They deserve better than to have their hard-earned gear reduced to something basic and unpromising.

Other members and the KI team, what do you think?
Community Leader
Strong disagree from me. I think you're conflating simply *nerfing* the jacket with making the jacket useless. The jacket currently represents ~5500 points of damage by itself, before buffs are factored in. This is enough to kill at least one enemy, and often two- half of the enemies in a solo mob fight. It's definitely possible to say, cut the damage in half or reduce it by 33%. This still makes it a reasonably powerful item (capable of killing 1 enemy + a little more) without making it game-defining.

Also, I don't think changing the drop rate fixed any of the problems presented by Blood's Jacket. The mere existence of this item in its current state makes it very difficult (or outright impossible) to design legitimately challenging PvE content. When a couple of Scratch buffs make each flame do enough damage to one-shot any non-boss enemy in the game, PvE becomes trivial. Thus, the devs have no choice but to design mechanics similar to the new Bonnie Anne fight in order to circumvent flames' power level. This design space is obviously limited in comparison to the design space at large. Furthermore, if the goal of lowering the drop rate is to ensure that fewer players obtain it, it will inevitably fail. The jacket is so powerful and makes questing mid-level characters so trivial, they will still invest significant time to get it.

So, if we want challenging, diverse gameplay experiences in the future, something needs to happen to Blood's Jacket (and probably Scratch buffs as well). Both of these mechanics allow players to do ridiculous amounts of damage in a single burst and remove any real strategy from combat.
Writer, Editor, Administrator, and Pirate PvP guy at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Commodore
Feb 12, 2015
970
Matthew525011 on Nov 4, 2019 wrote:
Strong disagree from me. I think you're conflating simply *nerfing* the jacket with making the jacket useless. The jacket currently represents ~5500 points of damage by itself, before buffs are factored in. This is enough to kill at least one enemy, and often two- half of the enemies in a solo mob fight. It's definitely possible to say, cut the damage in half or reduce it by 33%. This still makes it a reasonably powerful item (capable of killing 1 enemy + a little more) without making it game-defining.

Also, I don't think changing the drop rate fixed any of the problems presented by Blood's Jacket. The mere existence of this item in its current state makes it very difficult (or outright impossible) to design legitimately challenging PvE content. When a couple of Scratch buffs make each flame do enough damage to one-shot any non-boss enemy in the game, PvE becomes trivial. Thus, the devs have no choice but to design mechanics similar to the new Bonnie Anne fight in order to circumvent flames' power level. This design space is obviously limited in comparison to the design space at large. Furthermore, if the goal of lowering the drop rate is to ensure that fewer players obtain it, it will inevitably fail. The jacket is so powerful and makes questing mid-level characters so trivial, they will still invest significant time to get it.

So, if we want challenging, diverse gameplay experiences in the future, something needs to happen to Blood's Jacket (and probably Scratch buffs as well). Both of these mechanics allow players to do ridiculous amounts of damage in a single burst and remove any real strategy from combat.
'Agreeing with you %100 emote'
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
ArghArgh11 on Nov 3, 2019 wrote:
I noticed that a developer recently said they would be nerfing Blood's Jacket. I don't think this would benefit the game in any way and it seems rather pointless. The jacket has been the same for years now and literally no one asked for this. We have persistently asked for story-line updates and for glitches to be fixed and I'm frankly irritated that this is what is focused on. I'm not sure if the KI team will really be going through with this, but since they value members' opinions, this is mine. Instead of nerfing the jacket, maybe its drop rate could be reduced instead? The Obsidian version has a much higher drop rate than the other. It seems that many more people have their hands on the jacket. I also feel bad for the people who literally farmed it for YEARS at Miranda. They deserve better than to have their hard-earned gear reduced to something basic and unpromising.

Other members and the KI team, what do you think?
What Matthew said plus this: Why should a piece of gear that is level 35, still be "OP" at max level? Is there any other piece of gear comparable?
This is why so many players are complaining that battles are "too easy" and are asking for harder content.
Even though I have this jacket ( and yes, it took me years to get it ) I support Ratbeard's ( slightly facetious ) comment about reducing Blood Flames damage.
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
ArghArgh11 on Nov 3, 2019 wrote:
I noticed that a developer recently said they would be nerfing Blood's Jacket. I don't think this would benefit the game in any way and it seems rather pointless. The jacket has been the same for years now and literally no one asked for this. We have persistently asked for story-line updates and for glitches to be fixed and I'm frankly irritated that this is what is focused on. I'm not sure if the KI team will really be going through with this, but since they value members' opinions, this is mine. Instead of nerfing the jacket, maybe its drop rate could be reduced instead? The Obsidian version has a much higher drop rate than the other. It seems that many more people have their hands on the jacket. I also feel bad for the people who literally farmed it for YEARS at Miranda. They deserve better than to have their hard-earned gear reduced to something basic and unpromising.

Other members and the KI team, what do you think?
Actually, Ratbeard said "I think bundle companions are over-rated and Blood Flames need a nerf." He didn't come out and say "I'm going to nerf the jacket".
I think you're panicking over nothing.
Gunner's Mate
Feb 06, 2018
234
ArghArgh11 on Nov 3, 2019 wrote:
I noticed that a developer recently said they would be nerfing Blood's Jacket. I don't think this would benefit the game in any way and it seems rather pointless. The jacket has been the same for years now and literally no one asked for this. We have persistently asked for story-line updates and for glitches to be fixed and I'm frankly irritated that this is what is focused on. I'm not sure if the KI team will really be going through with this, but since they value members' opinions, this is mine. Instead of nerfing the jacket, maybe its drop rate could be reduced instead? The Obsidian version has a much higher drop rate than the other. It seems that many more people have their hands on the jacket. I also feel bad for the people who literally farmed it for YEARS at Miranda. They deserve better than to have their hard-earned gear reduced to something basic and unpromising.

Other members and the KI team, what do you think?
What's the big deal over Blood's Jacket anyway?!

People say in posts they've been farming for years to get it! Isn't that a bit exaggerated?
Petty Officer
Oct 31, 2012
91
While I agree Blood Flames are powerful. I will ask this questions. What would this game look without them or even nerfed? Probably even less players online and farming. So less gold being spent questing in general. Catch 22 here. Maybe if we had some additionally quests to do we would be less focused on this overpowered jacket issue? Simply put. If I hadn't be grinding for the last 3 years trying to obtain powerful items like numerous Blood Jackets or pairs of the Imperial Boots what else would I have been doing? My answer would be not much. lol.
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
glitterway123 on Nov 5, 2019 wrote:
What's the big deal over Blood's Jacket anyway?!

People say in posts they've been farming for years to get it! Isn't that a bit exaggerated?
Nope, that's not exaggerated at all. It took me approximately 2 years to get it. It is the single most OP gear in the game & a rare drop - it's so OP that it's banned from Ranked PVP.
If you read Matthew's post you'll see why players want this drop, with the right buffs it can decimate your enemies.
I still think that this is a panic over nothing.
Petty Officer
Jan 26, 2019
58
glitterway123 on Nov 5, 2019 wrote:
What's the big deal over Blood's Jacket anyway?!

People say in posts they've been farming for years to get it! Isn't that a bit exaggerated?
They’re not exaggerated in anyway. The Jacket is one of the rarest, powerful, and most desired drop in the game. Those Blood Flames, when buffed, can reach up to 5,000 damage in one hit. I think it needs a nerf, because it makes dungeons like Moo Manchu’s Tower really boring. Gameplay in general is more boring when your enemies die before you can even attack them.
Community Leader
Sensible Seamus on Nov 6, 2019 wrote:
While I agree Blood Flames are powerful. I will ask this questions. What would this game look without them or even nerfed? Probably even less players online and farming. So less gold being spent questing in general. Catch 22 here. Maybe if we had some additionally quests to do we would be less focused on this overpowered jacket issue? Simply put. If I hadn't be grinding for the last 3 years trying to obtain powerful items like numerous Blood Jackets or pairs of the Imperial Boots what else would I have been doing? My answer would be not much. lol.
I don't think the difference would be significant if they were nerfed to even half of their current damage. Right now, they're so beyond obscene, that they're an "I win" button for every fight in the game, save for Obsidian Bonnie. Just bringing them down to earth a little bit keeps their status as a premiere and powerful item, without a massively negative impact on the ability to create difficult pve content in the future.
Writer, Editor, Administrator, and Pirate PvP guy at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Petty Officer
Oct 31, 2012
91
Matthew525011 on Nov 7, 2019 wrote:
I don't think the difference would be significant if they were nerfed to even half of their current damage. Right now, they're so beyond obscene, that they're an "I win" button for every fight in the game, save for Obsidian Bonnie. Just bringing them down to earth a little bit keeps their status as a premiere and powerful item, without a massively negative impact on the ability to create difficult pve content in the future.
I can't comment on pvp as I don't take part in pvp. At max level we are going too beat opponents easily. Annie is not that hard by studying the mechanics of the battle. While I agree spamming blood flames is the easiest way out of a battle there is never a guarantee that card will appear or be successful. It still takes a lot of skill too defeat the enemy when luck is not in your favor. Lets remember even with blood flames some of these quest battles were still tough.
Gunner's Mate
May 08, 2010
270
If they nerf Blood's jacket, nothing really will happen to the game. They need to look at Scratch buffs and either give the 100% buff to Witch only or remove it entirely. Blood's Jacket being nerfed won't really do much, as it stands flames tide and 100% buff still two turns the game...
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
Sensible Seamus on Nov 7, 2019 wrote:
I can't comment on pvp as I don't take part in pvp. At max level we are going too beat opponents easily. Annie is not that hard by studying the mechanics of the battle. While I agree spamming blood flames is the easiest way out of a battle there is never a guarantee that card will appear or be successful. It still takes a lot of skill too defeat the enemy when luck is not in your favor. Lets remember even with blood flames some of these quest battles were still tough.
Blood Flames is banned from Ranked PVP. So there would be NO impact there.

"At max level we are going to beat opponents easily"
Not necessarily so, Smuggler's Arena & these new Obsidian Dungeons can still hand out defeats IF you don't use those OP gears.
Isn't the challenge worth a sacrifice?
Still, I have yet to see that Ratbeard said that a nerf is definite.
Community Leader
Sensible Seamus on Nov 7, 2019 wrote:
I can't comment on pvp as I don't take part in pvp. At max level we are going too beat opponents easily. Annie is not that hard by studying the mechanics of the battle. While I agree spamming blood flames is the easiest way out of a battle there is never a guarantee that card will appear or be successful. It still takes a lot of skill too defeat the enemy when luck is not in your favor. Lets remember even with blood flames some of these quest battles were still tough.
I absolutely agree that Annie isn't an insanely hard fight if you use your brain. However, I'm going to push back on the point that that fights with flames are remotely difficult, especially main quest battles with flames available and effective. A single set of flames with no buffs essentially removes half of the enemies in a solo fight without having to put in any effort. Throw on a couple of scratch buffs and you're now one-hitting basically any enemy that isn't a major boss or a high level, optional mob (think later floors of the smuggler's arena, obsidian fights, etc). Even then, you're nuking 1/3 or more of their health, and either another flame or two, or a mojo-buffed attack will kill them with ease. These optional enemies are supposed to be challenging, and yet, we kill them with only a hair more difficulty than basic mobs.

Yes, many fights at max level are, by definition, going to be easy, as our characters are at the apex of their power. However, that doesn't mean every fight except for (maybe) one should be trivialized by spamming flames (and likely scratch buffs). Furthermore, even if a member of your party doesn't pull their flames, you're still capable of unleashing 1,500+ damage AOE attacks that will ravage the mobs that pretty much always bunch up nicely for you. Something needs to be done with these Scratch buffs and flames if we're ever going to have a chance of consistently challenging content.
Writer, Editor, Administrator, and Pirate PvP guy at FinalBastion

Check us out for all things Pirate101 and Wizard101 PvE/PvP

Petty Officer
Jan 26, 2019
58
witchdoctor of awe... on Nov 7, 2019 wrote:
If they nerf Blood's jacket, nothing really will happen to the game. They need to look at Scratch buffs and either give the 100% buff to Witch only or remove it entirely. Blood's Jacket being nerfed won't really do much, as it stands flames tide and 100% buff still two turns the game...
I've maxed two pirates, almost maxed one, and have had another pirate leveled 37. I've gone through the entire game nearly three times, have beat Kane dozens of times, done several Moo Manchu runs, and have fought nearly every Skeleton Key boss 10 times each, all without the aid of Blood's jacket. I've probably done about 40 Obsidian Blood runs since it was released, and haven't gotten it. I've also done Miranda about a dozen times, and haven't gotten it. I've still been able to get through the game without Blood's jacket, and very well. I wouldn't mind seeing it go "bye-bye," because even though I miraculously got Kane's Mask, I still haven't gotten the jacket (lots of frustration and jealousy on my part). Scratch buffs, on the other hand, might take a bit of time to recover from if they were taken away, because my privateer relies heavily on those.

If you remember what it was like before his buffs, it was a nightmare. Privateer's heals were next to useless, witchdoctors were in an even worse situation than they are now, and a lot of other powers (Assassin's Strikes for swashbucklers and Knockback Bombs for musketeers) weren't even practical. I say every time he promotes, just take away the lowest buff and replace it with the next highest buff. So by the time you've maxed Scratch, he'd only have his 100% spell power buff, instead of a 50% and a 75% (?) buff as well.
Admiral
Nov 23, 2011
1407
For what they are worth, here are my two pieces of eight:

In general, when you have a desirable drop that people spent a fair amount of time - and quite possibly crowns - hunting for, retroactively nerfing it seems pretty dodgy to me. And I certainly spent a fair amount of time farming so a few of my pirates could find the jacket.

If you find that the Blood Flames ability makes your fights too easy, there is a very easy solution: don't use them.

-indigo
Gunner's Mate
Feb 06, 2018
234
anecorbie on Nov 6, 2019 wrote:
Nope, that's not exaggerated at all. It took me approximately 2 years to get it. It is the single most OP gear in the game & a rare drop - it's so OP that it's banned from Ranked PVP.
If you read Matthew's post you'll see why players want this drop, with the right buffs it can decimate your enemies.
I still think that this is a panic over nothing.
Yikes...
Gunner's Mate
Feb 06, 2018
234
TheyMayBeBears on Nov 6, 2019 wrote:
They’re not exaggerated in anyway. The Jacket is one of the rarest, powerful, and most desired drop in the game. Those Blood Flames, when buffed, can reach up to 5,000 damage in one hit. I think it needs a nerf, because it makes dungeons like Moo Manchu’s Tower really boring. Gameplay in general is more boring when your enemies die before you can even attack them.
I agree--I love a good challenge.

So, people have been farming for years just to get a jacket?! Yikes...
Pirate Overlord
Mar 16, 2012
10631
glitterway123 on Nov 8, 2019 wrote:
I agree--I love a good challenge.

So, people have been farming for years just to get a jacket?! Yikes...
It is a very good-looking jacket ( if a dull color ) I had his hat, boots and his two weapons; all way before I got the jacket.