Nightblood1995 on May 28, 2015 wrote:

What do you mean? The only 'luck' factor I can see taking place in Pirate101 is whether or not you Crit, and what level of Crit you will receive. Going first or second in Ranked PvP doesn't really change anything, because if you go first you might be able to move first but if you go second you can play defensively and read your opponent's intentions. So, in my opinion, the 'going first' argument is (thankfully) not a valid issue in Pirate PvP.

If I misread what you meant, I apologize in advance.

While I agree with luck not really being that much of a problem (exculding Doubloons), here are the things effected by luck:
Dodge/Blocks
Damage Amount
Critical Chance
Relentless/Burst Fire/ Mojo Echo
Doubloons

Mindy GoldenHeart on May 30, 2015 wrote:

Ahoy!
What I meant was exactly what you've said. The fact that only luck decides who will win, without minding the little effect of strategy, is the problem. And I'm only remarking of W101 PvP, not P101. On one hand, going second against your opponent leaves you with only very little hope to win in most cases. Take storm against fire or balance with the storm going second for instance. What's the chance of the storm winning against the best 2 classes while storm is the second lowest tier school while the opponent went first? Tower and Volcanic shields spam, lots of damage, Loremaster or Fire From Above or Krampus and finally the heavy reliance on luck for crits. Do you get my point now?
On the other hand, if the storm player gets the first turn, he still has a big chance of winning, but might still have to rely on luck, the card draws may be bad, he might get a critical hit landed on him/her, the opponent can get lucky with a pet heal, etc.
And you wasn't mistaken in your reply. Actually, in P101 PvP, going first or second or having a crit on is very common and doesn't always turn the tide. For example, the opponent can't cast defenses right before you hit if he starts first, hence the order of the teams' turns doesn't make that big of a difference.

You forgot to note that in W101 there is a possibility of a 'fizzle'. This doesn't happen in P101, our power attacks go through, with a chance of a critical.
I think that 'luck' as a variant to P101 PVP is very low, the PVP here is strategy heavy. If you make foolish mistakes you'll lose to a smarter, more savvy opponent.

Mindy GoldenHeart on May 30, 2015 wrote:

Ahoy!
What I meant was exactly what you've said. The fact that only luck decides who will win, without minding the little effect of strategy, is the problem. And I'm only remarking of W101 PvP, not P101. On one hand, going second against your opponent leaves you with only very little hope to win in most cases. Take storm against fire or balance with the storm going second for instance. What's the chance of the storm winning against the best 2 classes while storm is the second lowest tier school while the opponent went first? Tower and Volcanic shields spam, lots of damage, Loremaster or Fire From Above or Krampus and finally the heavy reliance on luck for crits. Do you get my point now?
On the other hand, if the storm player gets the first turn, he still has a big chance of winning, but might still have to rely on luck, the card draws may be bad, he might get a critical hit landed on him/her, the opponent can get lucky with a pet heal, etc.
And you wasn't mistaken in your reply. Actually, in P101 PvP, going first or second or having a crit on is very common and doesn't always turn the tide. For example, the opponent can't cast defenses right before you hit if he starts first, hence the order of the teams' turns doesn't make that big of a difference.

Ah, well, that's probably the biggest reason I left W101 and don't like their PvP system. In P101, it doesn't matter who goes first since you both don't move at the same time, which is a beautiful system in itself. Promotes strategy over 'randomness'. I can agree with you, the current PvP system we have in the game is flat-out awesome! I wouldn't want it to change any other way, but when Ranked comes into play I hope nothing drastic happens.

zuto4011a on Jun 1, 2015 wrote:

luck is still very heavy here, i'll use my earlier match against a clanmate for this, toro one rounded tonka from full health, then dodged my toro which had zeal and call to arms, and then landed a riposte, another match against another clanmate kevin, was about to flawless the next round, he one shotted me from full health with a mega hidden assassin, even though i had outplayed him every other round, one lucky assassin won him the game

And the match we did last night how I would of won one turn sooner if my soul shroud did not hit my baar and hit one of the many summons there is luck in pirate101 pvp

To promote a positive Ranked experience I would like to have the "FLEE" option altered. I'm sure we've all experienced being abandoned in the middle ( or even start ) of a match. It seems some pirates can't stand being defeated and think fleeing will protect their record, or they don't trust the team they're playing with to heal or help them.
I would like to see the FLEE button replaced by a CONCEDE or SURENDER button. How this would work is this: if a pirate wishes to concede a match, they will click on the button, but they won't automatically be able to leave.
A notice then appears to the other pirates that says "One of the team would like to concede/surrender, do you agree?" With a "YAR" or "NAR" available. A concession/surrender must be unanimous, otherwise the match continues.
I'm interested in hearing feed back on this idea, is it too harsh?

NOTE: This is not blaming a low level pirate who flees when confronted by a team way beyond their level, fleeing in that case is sensible. And since we're talking about ranked PVP, I don't think an under leveled pirate will be facing such a situation.

Nightblood1995 on May 31, 2015 wrote:

Hmm, I see what you mean. I knew about Dodge/Block, Damage and Crit having the random 'luck' factor (or at least a 'ranged' factor) but Relentless/Burst Fire/Mojo Echo can be manipulated to go off more, from what I've experienced that is. My Peter Quint, for example, ALWAYS gets at least one Relentless or Blade Storm off, mainly because I gave him those two talents so he'd keep hitting in order to increase his chances of activating one or both talents. In addition, I gave him Strong along with his other stat boosts, which does increase your chances of activating those types of talents. If your Companion/Character's main stat is higher than your target's the calculation is used to determine how often your Relentless/Blade Storm/Burst Fire/Mojo Echo will activate. So, in a way, you can kind of control how often those activate simply by boosting your main stat as high as possible. That's just from what I've experienced though, so if I'm wrong on some of the details I stand corrected.

I never had much of any Doubloons so I can't comment about those, but since it's in your suggested list I'll be sure to remain aware of that, thanks!

Oh, I was just pointing out what had luck to do with it, most of these can be heavily effected in your favor, again, excepting doubloons.

Ratbeard on Jun 2, 2015 wrote:

Lets not forget the original concept of this thread: How you would like to 'better' the old system?

This sounds like fun. Can I play?

1. Fix buff stacking so that the matches play out closer to the intended design
2. Fix a handful of (PvP) problematic powers, talents, and items
3. Randomize the first turn order and find an equitable fix for the first turn advantage
4. Introduce some new things to shake players out of their complacent routines
5. Implement a robust ranking, scoring, and reward system that borrows from the best (hardest) lessons learned from W101
6. Do all of the above while pleasing both the PvP and PvE players

Reading things like this make me excited! Even small teases like this of what might possibly come in the future help get the playerbase excited.

Thanks for the reply Ratbeard.

To stay in topic, I think that unlike Wizards101, when ranked does come around it will have to be divided by levels. The levels between players makes a bigger difference here than in wizards. In Wizards it is very possible to have a level 50 wizard beat a level 70 wizard if they happen to match up in ranked. In Pirates however, I don't see how a level 50 pirate can beat a level 65 with the difference not only in player levels, but also companions level.

Not sure how it could be implemented so that waiting times for matches doesn't take forever, but maybe something like max of 5-8 levels difference between the two players? Not sure, but this would improve the old wizard system and prevent unbalanced duels.

Alex Hawkins on Jun 3, 2015 wrote:

Reading things like this make me excited! Even small teases like this of what might possibly come in the future help get the playerbase excited.

Thanks for the reply Ratbeard.

To stay in topic, I think that unlike Wizards101, when ranked does come around it will have to be divided by levels. The levels between players makes a bigger difference here than in wizards. In Wizards it is very possible to have a level 50 wizard beat a level 70 wizard if they happen to match up in ranked. In Pirates however, I don't see how a level 50 pirate can beat a level 65 with the difference not only in player levels, but also companions level.

Not sure how it could be implemented so that waiting times for matches doesn't take forever, but maybe something like max of 5-8 levels difference between the two players? Not sure, but this would improve the old wizard system and prevent unbalanced duels.

We do try to seed players against equally matched opponents, but this is trickier in P101 than you might think. Players who are the same level may have companions of widely disparate levels, and even then, players who have companions of the same level may not choose to use them. We could force you to lock in your teams before matchmaking, but this seems less fun; ditto for choosing "balanced" teams for you at match time.

This is to say nothing of each player's equipment and skill.

I have a head full of ideas on how to make a very balanced and predictive matchmaking system, but that has to be weighed against the amount of server time and player wait times it would require-- especially when viewed against a simpler, less restrictive level-based system that will certainly be "good enough" more often than not.

I do believe that at the top levels of competition, where it matters most, players will tend to be quite evenly matched on all metrics-- player level, companion level, gear, and skill.

Generally speaking, we would rather that players who queue for a match do get some kind of match, even if it is wildly lopsided, than to never get to play at all.

Sorry it's not explicitly mentioned in my post above, but yes, obviously your PvP rank will be considered as well.

Nightblood1995 on May 24, 2015 wrote:

I've heard your point numerous times from other players when I used to attempt to get into PvPing. Practice PvP won't teach you much when it comes to Ranked, which is the primary issue. You veteran PvPers out there know what to do and can run with it, those that are new to the whole system end up as punching bags for the pros when they're simply trying to learn how to get the hang of things. This thread is not about eliminating PvP nor the Ranked system, it's about promoting a positive system that works well for beginners and pros alike.

And I'd have to disagree with the "Losers just take it with a grain of salt and move on to the next match" mindset, because everyone learns differently. If someone wants to learn to PvP, but is having a hard time learning, who are we to tell them they should give up cuz they're not 'gifted' or 'lucky' or 'smart'? I find the scoring system to be the biggest issue, those new PvPers that try to get in (and turn into fresh meat for the pros) have to watch their 'score' plummet; when you add in the fact that anyone around you can pull up your character stats and see you score, it can get to be seriously embarrassing fast.

Technically, the Badge system is already in place in Wizard101; you have to defeat a certain number of players for specific badges (may not be Rank titles, but it's very similar).

How does changing the system to where it's Badge-style without the scoring system lessening the challenge factor in any way? You're still going to go up against pros and rookies alike, you're still going to have to strategize and plan wisely, so how is removing the scoring system suddenly making the Ranked arena a playground?

Thanks for your feedback too, by the way! You have some very good points!

The biggest thing I disagree with is removing a ranking system, the idea is we need a place to at some point separate the pros/veterans from the noobs (Yes noob as in new, not bad) so how are these newer players going to learn if they have a 50/50 chance of getting a pro every match? Kind of bad and discouraging for newer players don't you think? That's the main reason the ranking system MUST STAY in this instance because how are people going to improve if they rely on pulling newer players so when they hit a pro they get discourage and quit but when they pull a noob they get a bit wild and see 'hey I can win a match' now making them have a roller coaster of emotion is if we made no ranking system to seperate this, rank is actually better for this. When you fight players of your skill lvl you slowly learn new strategies when you run into these improving/pro players ranking up, I remember on wiz when I knew nothing about pvp I got up to knight by grinding I had a horrible record but I saw hey I could beat some people so it encouraged me to learn more so when I hit the captain+ ranks I was able to put the determination into learning these top tier strategies because I saw that hey I'm not bad I'm in the middle but I can get better and reach the top IF I learn how.

This is the whole purpose of rank, and pvp in general, trying to create an environment for everyone in the first place is impossible even for pve wise, pvp is a lot harder and some people just don't have what it takes to learn it, who said that's bad? PvP is a harsher enviroment, its for thick thinned players to battle it out to prove whose the best, taking away a ranking system just doesn't work. They will most likely have practice matches in place for your goal you want to achieve here but you need to understand PvP is more of, here it is, here's how it works, buck it up and learn how to win if you care about it/strive to be on the top or go back to PvE

What orange says sounds harsh but its the truth with every games pvp, eat or be eaten, pvp or pve, pvp isnt for everyone, the battles are tough, the players even tougher, the only thing i pray for is this games community wont be like destinys, i could fill 2 posts just listing all the various things they think need to be changed, and there are a lot

anecorbie on Jun 2, 2015 wrote:

To promote a positive Ranked experience I would like to have the "FLEE" option altered. I'm sure we've all experienced being abandoned in the middle ( or even start ) of a match. It seems some pirates can't stand being defeated and think fleeing will protect their record, or they don't trust the team they're playing with to heal or help them.
I would like to see the FLEE button replaced by a CONCEDE or SURENDER button. How this would work is this: if a pirate wishes to concede a match, they will click on the button, but they won't automatically be able to leave.
A notice then appears to the other pirates that says "One of the team would like to concede/surrender, do you agree?" With a "YAR" or "NAR" available. A concession/surrender must be unanimous, otherwise the match continues.
I'm interested in hearing feed back on this idea, is it too harsh?

NOTE: This is not blaming a low level pirate who flees when confronted by a team way beyond their level, fleeing in that case is sensible. And since we're talking about ranked PVP, I don't think an under leveled pirate will be facing such a situation.

I am all in favor for this. A brilliant idea! However, you also gotta remember that just because the other person can't flee (if you don't want them too) doesn't mean they won't just sit there and skip their turn either. Which is where teamwork needs to come into play. Just something to keep in mind

What does the PVP community feel about spectators? I've witnessed some fascinating duels in W101, should P101 have grand stands from which to watch the participants? Should there be an option to 'mute' spectator chatter?