Ratbeard on Jun 29, 2016 wrote:

1) The issue with Charm is its disparate effects based on which player goes first. It's easy to turn it back on, but I suspect you'll quickly ask for it to be turned off again. It's off now because of those complaints. (Fixing it has proven extremely thorny.)

2) Good idea.

And now... Let's all remember back to the last update, when certain people had a long list of changes that absolutely had to be made before witch doctors could possibly be competitive again, that none of the changes made to Black Fog/First Strike would have any effect to rein in Swashbucklers, and so on.

You should know by now that we (a) listen, (b) watch, (c) wait, (d) act. Every single update-- every single update-- we go through this process where everybody tries to figure out how the new powers fit into the meta. You *think* you understand how all the powers will fit, and I *think* I know how all the new powers will fit, but it is too early to tell. Because you all are sneaky and smart. You need some time to shatter your old strategies and put the pieces back together again. And we need to see you do that. Because frankly, if we're just theory-casting, and we have competing theories (as we usually do...)-- well, we default to the designer. I have been wrong in the past, I'll be wrong in the future-- and we'll make changes.

But we are not reactionary, and not going to play whack-a-mole with whatever the perceived "most broken thing ever!" is at any given time.

This is not a "preponderance of evidence" process but a "beyond a reasonable doubt" process. (Can you tell I've had jury duty twice in the last month?)

There's a few things mentioned I'd like to try to fix:

1) FMB should not be granting hidden damage bonus. I'll fix it if I can. And, although I haven't seen this mentioned yet, I'll be making it so that it can't be stacked with itself.

2) BoD. If I can find a way to lessen the "first turn" impact without nerfing the utility of this power as a timely response to summons, I'll do so.

In your 4th paragraph, you stated that us PvP players need to "Shatter our old strategies and put the pieces back together again" I could plan a strategy for days if i wanted, but nothing's gonna stop a Privateer from using Blast of Discord first turn & Potentially one rounding my pirate if not doing significant damage to me & my companions. Perfecting a strategy COULD counter Firstmate's boon, but why would i make a strategy specific for fighting Privateers if all classes join in ranked PvP?

Fiery Zane Newell

anecorbie on Jun 29, 2016 wrote:

2. How is using Fog the first round any more disgusting than using any of the best powers of a class? If a Buck uses Highland Charge, is that "disgusting"? What about Greater Juju? Why are you being so judgmental?
And I've been wondering, just how can BoD have an effect on a Fogged team when Fog prevents individual attacks?

Sorry, wasn't clear enough. I meant Discord is disgusting. I personally have no problem with the opponent fogging round 1. Discord round 1 is really terrible, and requires no strategy at all, and even though I don't like using it against buckler, I am kinda annoyed at myself that I feel the need to use it to try and rid them of their fog

Blast of Discord has worked against fog, where it's not necessarily like an individual attack. I can't really explain it, but think about it as bombs or a mojo storm. The buckler companions hit each other, removing their hide because they have done damage, to their opponent or not.

Ratbeard on Jun 29, 2016 wrote:

1) The issue with Charm is its disparate effects based on which player goes first. It's easy to turn it back on, but I suspect you'll quickly ask for it to be turned off again. It's off now because of those complaints. (Fixing it has proven extremely thorny.)

2) Good idea.

And now... Let's all remember back to the last update, when certain people had a long list of changes that absolutely had to be made before witch doctors could possibly be competitive again, that none of the changes made to Black Fog/First Strike would have any effect to rein in Swashbucklers, and so on.

You should know by now that we (a) listen, (b) watch, (c) wait, (d) act. Every single update-- every single update-- we go through this process where everybody tries to figure out how the new powers fit into the meta. You *think* you understand how all the powers will fit, and I *think* I know how all the new powers will fit, but it is too early to tell. Because you all are sneaky and smart. You need some time to shatter your old strategies and put the pieces back together again. And we need to see you do that. Because frankly, if we're just theory-casting, and we have competing theories (as we usually do...)-- well, we default to the designer. I have been wrong in the past, I'll be wrong in the future-- and we'll make changes.

But we are not reactionary, and not going to play whack-a-mole with whatever the perceived "most broken thing ever!" is at any given time.

This is not a "preponderance of evidence" process but a "beyond a reasonable doubt" process. (Can you tell I've had jury duty twice in the last month?)

There's a few things mentioned I'd like to try to fix:

1) FMB should not be granting hidden damage bonus. I'll fix it if I can. And, although I haven't seen this mentioned yet, I'll be making it so that it can't be stacked with itself.

2) BoD. If I can find a way to lessen the "first turn" impact without nerfing the utility of this power as a timely response to summons, I'll do so.

I'm glad you agreed with the second suggestion which quentin stated, but all of these other things your saying but also the top players in our pvp community who at least pvp several times a day who are complaining about blast of discord (including myself and i'm a privateer) know the full potential of this broken power it needs to have a maximum damage cap on the damage you can do to the pirate and the team.

I would also like to add that the pain of the privateer powers would be lessened if the other classes got a little more love on their powers. For example:

Witchdoctors - Heat metal - 'ignites target's armor for two turns.' This does nothing to help the character, as all witch attacks and spells are magical. That's besides the point. Even if it took away all armor and resistance for two turns, the meta right now doesn't allow for this kind of play. A turn would be much better spent shielding, healing, or directly attacking an enemy.

Musketeers - Grants quick adjust. Because musketeers don't have a dozen guaranteed AoE hits already and their accuracy is so low that they never hit anything.

Buccaneers - Sundering Strike - 'reduce armor and movement by 50%.' I got excited at first because I didn't see a time limit on the attack. However, upon trying it, a time limit of three turns was instituted. Additionally, the player has to already be adjacent to the target to use this (similar to mojo blade) and the attack does not trigger epics for either side. So I'm totally going to forgo a regular attack with the possibility of chaining epics to deal 300 damage and make sure the target stays right next to me because I couldn't already chase him/her down with a charge. This might just be even less helpful than throwing knives.

Swashbucklers - Assassin's stride - 'teleport to an open square within range.' First of all, the range is shorter than the normal movement speed of a buckler. Second of all, if the purpose of the ability is to avoid triggering epics such as overwatch, hidden already does that better. I guess you could use it to avoid traps, except you already don't take that much damage from them.

I know this post might sound a bit mean but I'm not trying to tear the update apart. I am trying to communicate what a lot of people already feel and also further show why privateers are so unbalanced right now. If you don't want to nerf them, buff everyone else.

Celestialmaster147 on Jun 30, 2016 wrote:

Sorry, wasn't clear enough. I meant Discord is disgusting. I personally have no problem with the opponent fogging round 1. Discord round 1 is really terrible, and requires no strategy at all, and even though I don't like using it against buckler, I am kinda annoyed at myself that I feel the need to use it to try and rid them of their fog

Blast of Discord has worked against fog, where it's not necessarily like an individual attack. I can't really explain it, but think about it as bombs or a mojo storm. The buckler companions hit each other, removing their hide because they have done damage, to their opponent or not.

Thank you for that information: I was considering Fog as a viable counter. It's strange that it works that way.

anecorbie on Jun 30, 2016 wrote:

I and a Privateer friend have been experimenting with BoD, I admit we've only did a few as time did not allow more experiments.
Results were disappointing - Blast of Discord not showing until the third or even the 5th round of the match.
And when it did finally show only two of my team were affected, although Fan did a get a critical on Contessa.
It still seems so random and luck based. And when FMB was used on a forted, Old Scratch boosted Nausica - it didn't do the kind of damage reported here.
I would like to do more experiments as I still don't know if BoD affects a fogged team or not.
For Science!

Old scratch boosted nausica? uh you mean he used VA? The reason boon nausica is OP is because that itself has the potential to EASILY one round muskets with quick draw as,
Nausica charges
Quick draw results in true grit 600
Initial charge lands a hit resulting in burst fire 2x600=1200 +1200
Burst fire being quick drawed results in another true grit +600
True grit gets another burst fire +600
The musketeer having used quick draw 2 times get burst fire resulting in one last true grit +600
Basically nausica did a total of 3600 damage one turn with boon on the musketeer CAPTAIN. Do you see these numbers? Before boon muskets would still be wrecked by nausica, but now? This is why I stopped playing my musket in PVP over a year ago, maybe he will stay inactive?

anecorbie on Jun 30, 2016 wrote:

Thank you for that information: I was considering Fog as a viable counter. It's strange that it works that way.

I think it's affected by spell power, cause when I do scratch first it seems to become more likely for people to hit each other.
Then again, it may not be, but it's worth a look into. Try fogging the entire team all at once, then they may not have targets to hit.

Personally i love the ability, so no one say "NERF IT" please! It's never been so fun playing privateer.
Also, stunning seems to prevent it, but you can't stun yourself, or so I think.

Well, cheerio!

Quite Jacques on Jun 30, 2016 wrote:

Old scratch boosted nausica? uh you mean he used VA? The reason boon nausica is OP is because that itself has the potential to EASILY one round muskets with quick draw as,
Nausica charges
Quick draw results in true grit 600
Initial charge lands a hit resulting in burst fire 2x600=1200 +1200
Burst fire being quick drawed results in another true grit +600
True grit gets another burst fire +600
The musketeer having used quick draw 2 times get burst fire resulting in one last true grit +600
Basically nausica did a total of 3600 damage one turn with boon on the musketeer CAPTAIN. Do you see these numbers? Before boon muskets would still be wrecked by nausica, but now? This is why I stopped playing my musket in PVP over a year ago, maybe he will stay inactive?

My friend had used Old Scratch buff the round before he used FMB. And VF before that. Basically Nausica absolutely failed to defeat El Toro ( didn't even get him into yellow health ). As I'm a swashbuckler, I wasn't using any musket crew. So this damage was done against a musketeer.
If a power is OP then it must have the same results to all classes, IMO.
You've only proven that it's OP in this one situation.

I defininently think that blast of discord should be banned from PVP, it is not fair. If a privateer goes first and next round the other team is to red health, They can technicly just bomb to win, Please KI bann Blast of discord from PVP.

HoodooNerd on Jul 2, 2016 wrote:

Well, this conversation has gone off the rails. This train started in Monquista and now we are in Aquila, but here is my 3 cents #Rebel.

1. After round 1, BoD is irrelevant. If you are blue, run the heck away from your companions. Even if it is just 1 space, even ranged units can't hit you. P.S. I know this was repetitive but just making sure we are all on the same page.

2. From what I've heard and thought, FMB really is only scary and practical at about round 3. So, you have some options.
Option 1. Rush
Option 2. Feed your tanky melee companion to the proverbial wolf of the other team.
Option 3. Cry, uninstall the game, and complain on the message boards.

Last point. The average privy only has 1 FMB, so after you survived the first one, just fight a privy like you did 2 months ago.

While privateers maybe top dogs right now, just you wait. If we learned anything from the musketeer class, it's that one moment you're the kings of pvp, and the next, you're the underdogs against everybody.
Matthew Walker
Matthew Taylor

Actually the average Privy has at least two FMB and is capable of gaining two more.
1. if you move first, the privy will hold off using BoD and just wait until your team needs to get together.
2. Options
a) rather problematic if you don't have a shield or buff - privy team will just destroy you. And Muskets aren't known for rushing.
b) best tanky melee companion could be avoided if they chose to hit you because you've stupidly rushed them.
c) yes, call everyone here a cry baby, even I haven't done that.
Actually I owe many here a HUGE apology, as I've finally met a Privy who BoDed me and my team just reduced my health to yellow - now I ask you, WHY can't my dodge kick in and save me? This at the very least would help.
And he had Old Scratch with Nausica and Marchioness.
I knew what was coming after the BoD. I fled - and if you're one of my friends, you know I NEVER do that - PVP or PVE. I'll go down in defeat or pull a fantastic, last minute save; but I wasn't going to fight a hopeless scenario.

Glitches that effect PvP
1. The critical glitch, basically the critical never factored accuracy
2. The Va glitch, the talent bladestorm OR follow through won't activate off of a target with Va
3. The shroud glitch, if a player is killed by shroud before being healed by their own shroud they will be unconscious but still have health and unable to move
4. The OTHER shroud glitch, if shroud would of activated and no targets are nearby it won't activate that round even if requirements are met afterwards
5. Team PvP shield glitch, often pets won't be animated to move and shields will last forever and are unaffected by purge
6. Vengeance strike glitch, sometimes vengeance will trigger twice from one hit
7. You can't shoot boxes with ranged weapons turn one but you can with powers
8. Witch hunter, has an extremely random damage output, it can do an unboosted 400 to one with a fort on

Quite Jacques on Jul 2, 2016 wrote:

"If a power is OP then it must have the same results to all classes," So basically your suggesting its fine that the musket class gets one rounded by the most common companion in the game. Your saying since nausica is only about as powerful as bonnie to other classes but the bane of existence to an entire class, that means it's balanced? No offense I find it hard to understand your reasoning here, why should the musket class get one rounded by the most common companion in the game? Oh and when you said nausica failed to kill toro of course not, as one they both are agility based which means less burst fire and criticals.

I'm NOT saying it's fine that any class get one rounded, but if this power was really "OP" then it would have the same result for all classes.
( As I'm beginning to see that it is - having the same result. )
Not quite sure it should be banned, but a moratorium on use in the first round where no one can move could be a solution.
Oh and here's a list of items that grants Firstmate's Boon - as you can see there are four and they all came from just a few runs of the Great Machine.
hat: Mosquera Cordoba
jacket: Liberi Greatcoat
boots: Pangare Sandals
necklace: Capitano Necklace
For all I know there may even be a ring and totem that grants this as well!