stormy quentin ver... on Jul 2, 2016 wrote:

This is why we need to have a penalty for declining matches. Personally, I look forward to doing any PVP match, and am glad when the window pops up asking me to accept the match.

But what usually happens is: I click to accept the match, then a few seconds later, the other person declines and it goes back to "Finding Opponent". Then, the same thing happens again, I accept, and the other person declines. This keeps going, often for over 10-20 cycles.

If this other person was initially in the queue and then had to leave for some reason, he or she would just decline the one match and then leave, and could live with taking a small hit in rank points (maybe 5?)

On the other hand, I cant think of a good reason for a person to go on a "relentless chain" of declining matches. If that small penalty was in place, that person would end up losing a lot of points for trying to do this, and therefore this type of "cheating" in rank could be eliminated or greatly reduced.

I think losing points is a bit over the top even if it's a small amount, I think just adding a flee timer also for people who flee during their matches would be fine like they have on Wiz. Just 5 minute punishment if they flee/decline a match. It works on Wiz and other MMO's so why fix what's not broken?

Alex Hawkins on Jun 30, 2016 wrote:

Can we get any word on the 4v4 Fort glitch? It seems to be the one thing that you guys always seem to avoid even talking about. The original post, and many posts in this thread, talked about the fort glitch, yet the first developer response we get completely ignores that part of the posts. This isn't a new glitch, this has been around for at least 2 years already. I think 2 years is plenty of time for (a), (b) and (c). When can we expect you guys to act (d)?

Were you guys even aware of it? Have you guys tried to fix it? Is there no way to fix it at the moment?

Just give us a signal that you guys are aware of it and looking into it, please.

I hadn't seen it until this thread. (And it sounds like something we'll need a programmer to fix!)

TechnomagePvP on Jul 2, 2016 wrote:

I think losing points is a bit over the top even if it's a small amount, I think just adding a flee timer also for people who flee during their matches would be fine like they have on Wiz. Just 5 minute punishment if they flee/decline a match. It works on Wiz and other MMO's so why fix what's not broken?

I dont play Wiz so I wouldnt know, but yeah, a 5 minute timer could be effective as well.

anecorbie on Jul 2, 2016 wrote:

I'm NOT saying it's fine that any class get one rounded, but if this power was really "OP" then it would have the same result for all classes.
( As I'm beginning to see that it is - having the same result. )
Not quite sure it should be banned, but a moratorium on use in the first round where no one can move could be a solution.
Oh and here's a list of items that grants Firstmate's Boon - as you can see there are four and they all came from just a few runs of the Great Machine.
hat: Mosquera Cordoba
jacket: Liberi Greatcoat
boots: Pangare Sandals
necklace: Capitano Necklace
For all I know there may even be a ring and totem that grants this as well!

Not sure if this is double post my computer is acting up.
OP in my opinion is something that results in extremely limited moves or choices without much work to control the situation.
An example of that would be Nausica, assume first turn she is a companion picked. If your fighting a musket they are forced to INSTANTLY make moves to defend against the possibility of a one turn rush that you may never do. You just forced the musket into a situation in which they must prepare for a fort nausica rush or die, yet you don't even NEED to do anything for them to prepare for it.
Another example of OP would be Blast Of Discord. Blast of discord if a privateer is present will threaten the opponent to do one of a few things first round (When you can't move)
1. Use a hide extremely early on when you know you will need it later
2. Waste a fort that you will need later
3. Risk it and benefit from taking the risk or lose
So basically the opponent is forced to make one of these moves, if they take moves one or two you can simply wait it out and do absolutely nothing to already have an advantage, then when they spread out you can punish that easily with individual charges on there companions, if they where a buckler and fogged, you have one round to setup and prepare when they didn't move at all on the turn they fogged.
In both of these situations the only reason there was limited moves to be made was because there was such extreme pressure from these moves, as Nausica can one round a musket, Blast can one round a pirate. The extreme power of these moves result in extremely limited choices with about NO work done by the user to pressure the foes. The reason I see this as a problem is generally pressure requires previous buffs or placement, ex. espirit Toro vs. Buccaneers, Sky spirit and musket bombs, Hold the line and vengeance strike, etc.

Celestialmaster147 on Jun 30, 2016 wrote:

Sorry, wasn't clear enough. I meant Discord is disgusting. I personally have no problem with the opponent fogging round 1. Discord round 1 is really terrible, and requires no strategy at all, and even though I don't like using it against buckler, I am kinda annoyed at myself that I feel the need to use it to try and rid them of their fog

Blast of Discord has worked against fog, where it's not necessarily like an individual attack. I can't really explain it, but think about it as bombs or a mojo storm. The buckler companions hit each other, removing their hide because they have done damage, to their opponent or not.

I've actually had it fizzle.

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Ratbeard on Jun 29, 2016 wrote:

1) The issue with Charm is its disparate effects based on which player goes first. It's easy to turn it back on, but I suspect you'll quickly ask for it to be turned off again. It's off now because of those complaints. (Fixing it has proven extremely thorny.)

2) Good idea.

And now... Let's all remember back to the last update, when certain people had a long list of changes that absolutely had to be made before witch doctors could possibly be competitive again, that none of the changes made to Black Fog/First Strike would have any effect to rein in Swashbucklers, and so on.

You should know by now that we (a) listen, (b) watch, (c) wait, (d) act. Every single update-- every single update-- we go through this process where everybody tries to figure out how the new powers fit into the meta. You *think* you understand how all the powers will fit, and I *think* I know how all the new powers will fit, but it is too early to tell. Because you all are sneaky and smart. You need some time to shatter your old strategies and put the pieces back together again. And we need to see you do that. Because frankly, if we're just theory-casting, and we have competing theories (as we usually do...)-- well, we default to the designer. I have been wrong in the past, I'll be wrong in the future-- and we'll make changes.

But we are not reactionary, and not going to play whack-a-mole with whatever the perceived "most broken thing ever!" is at any given time.

This is not a "preponderance of evidence" process but a "beyond a reasonable doubt" process. (Can you tell I've had jury duty twice in the last month?)

There's a few things mentioned I'd like to try to fix:

1) FMB should not be granting hidden damage bonus. I'll fix it if I can. And, although I haven't seen this mentioned yet, I'll be making it so that it can't be stacked with itself.

2) BoD. If I can find a way to lessen the "first turn" impact without nerfing the utility of this power as a timely response to summons, I'll do so.

Was this power made specifically for pvp? I think fog used first round is devastating too but I never asked for a change to it. Especially when doing a team up with three swashbucklers on tower floor nine. Yeah they all charged me.... lol

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Quite Jacques on Jul 3, 2016 wrote:

The reason to decline matches is when you get queued a map appears above your head and as it does to other people, if they get queued right when you do, you can guarantee with 90% certainty that you queued them. When you know who you queued you can leave if you think they will win, stay if you think you will beat them, or play the match regardless.

That's unsporting and against the spirit of PVP. Those aren't true competitors, but lazy babies.

I'm against an out-right ban on a class power, but there are ways that the problem can be solved:
1. A first round "freeze" on BoD. First round isn't the only round when a team may be together.
2. An adjustment allowing defensive talents to come into play - dodge or block. ( for PVP only )
3. As BoD seems to act as a team frenzy, why not have a dodge or block end it? ( for PVP only )
Only Ratbeard can say if these last 2 suggestions are feasible. All players here are just asking for a fair chance against what seems to be an insurmountable challenge.

DuranteRamses87 on Jul 3, 2016 wrote:

Was this power made specifically for pvp? I think fog used first round is devastating too but I never asked for a change to it. Especially when doing a team up with three swashbucklers on tower floor nine. Yeah they all charged me.... lol

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Fog first round doesn't attack your team. BoD is an attack. You know very well how to counter a fog, as I've seen you do.

Alex Hawkins on Jul 3, 2016 wrote:

Thank you. Glad that this thread served a purpose to make KingsIsle aware of the bug! If you would like more details on it, let us know. I am sure many of us would be glad to make a separate thread with all the info we know about it. We have 2 years dealing with it after all.

@anecorbie, "Can you explain to me why players are declining matches? Just what is the advantage in declining? I don't understand - you don't see who you're matched with so why is it happening?"

Simply put, there are certain players in the arena that constantly decline matches to avoid tough match ups, specifically quentin. I have seen first hand in the brawling hall people asking one another "did I pull you?" when queue pops up, and if their friend says no, they figure is quentin (which usually is if he's online) and decline the match. Is a bit pathetic really. Their advantage they see is getting someone easier to beat than quentin.

There are multiple ways to see who you are against before the match starts. When the match queue pops up, the little book thing appears on top of the player. So players can look around the brawling hall to see who else has the book on top of their head and that is probably their opponent. In the case of quentin, usually all he does is ranked PvP, so when people see him online or in the brawling hall, they guess that he is in queue and decline a lot of matches until they are sure they have pulled one of their friends instead.

I'm not the type to name names, never have been, but if you spend 20 minutes in the brawling hall when quentin is online, you'll see these players talking about dodging matches openly and asking one another "did I pull you?"

I like the idea Technomage had more than quentin's though. I think just a "leave" timer would be nice. So first leave is 5 minutes. If you dodge another queue again right after that, then timer goes up to 30mins, etc. Like when you fail unlocking your phone multiple times and timer goes up the more you fail.

Simply put, there are certain players in the arena that constantly decline matches to avoid tough match ups, specifically quentin. I have seen first hand in the brawling hall people asking one another "did I pull you?" when queue pops up, and if their friend says no, they figure is quentin (which usually is if he's online) and decline the match. Is a bit pathetic really. Their advantage they see is getting someone easier to beat than quentin.

I'm disgusted by that.

I can see a lot of people going off the deep end as usual. Why not propose simple solutions:

1. BOD hardly ever works out, but when it does it can be devastating, why not just make it so it can not be used turn 1. This will still keep it around for its original purpose which was to counter summons spams.

2. Changing black fog is just a ridiculous thing to ask for in my opinion, like someone else said, then just get rid of one valuable power from every class.

3. Fix first mate's boon so it can not transfer the 2x hide damage, which I understand from another post is already being worked on. Consider capping at some factor of total damage boost that can be transferred, not really sure.

4. I will leave Nausica for people more experienced than myself to address.

anecorbie on Jul 4, 2016 wrote:

I have a few suggestions for BoD: ( PVP only )
1. A first round "freeze". First round isn't the only round when a team may be gathered in one spot.
2. Allow defensive talents to activate in response to a BoD attack - dodging or blocking.
3. Since BoD seems to act like a team frenzy, then let a block or dodge stop BoD.
Only Ratbeard can say if these suggestions are feasible, but I would like to hear your input on these suggestions.

BOD in my opinion should be replaced with another power for Privy, In my opinion the perfect power to add now would be Critical block, and toss it on some gear for other classes, critical block would be perfect.

anecorbie on Jul 4, 2016 wrote:

I'm against an out-right ban on a class power, but there are ways that the problem can be solved:
1. A first round "freeze" on BoD. First round isn't the only round when a team may be together.
2. An adjustment allowing defensive talents to come into play - dodge or block. ( for PVP only )
3. As BoD seems to act as a team frenzy, why not have a dodge or block end it? ( for PVP only )
Only Ratbeard can say if these last 2 suggestions are feasible. All players here are just asking for a fair chance against what seems to be an insurmountable challenge.

Dodge or block do stop discord, however, it is rarely seen. All units accuracy are changed to 75% while the power is still in effect. Additionally, each unit has a 75% chance to be affected by the power, which is why it ends before someone dodges. I think Discord should be changed to having a maximum amount of hits, maybe up to 2 hits per companion?