anecorbie on Jun 28, 2016 wrote:

From your descriptions BoD does seem a problem - how is it that a power that doesn't do that much damage in PVE suddenly is KO-ing in one round a pirate in PVP?
Perhaps make so that BoD doesn't trigger criticals or talents? ( FS, Riposte, Vengeance, etc..)
It seems "first turn advantage" ( a W101 PVP problem ) has finally made its way into P101.
I'm truly against an outright ban on signature class powers because where do you draw the line? Nerfing just for PVP? Ratbeard has said that he was against that.
I haven't been PVP - ing much as I haven't the crowns to engage in ranked, but when I did I had fun and I know how important this is to many of you who are my friends.

Firstly Blast Of Discord DOESN'T trigger epics such as first strike. Secondly the fact you said it doesn't do much damage in PVE is completely false, it has the POSSIBILITY to continue until there are NO more targets.
The fact is Blast Of Discord is completely unfitting to the class, nor does it fit into a "strategy" game.
Secondly I have a feeling that Blast of Discord will almost regardless of nerfs be OP. If they simply reduce the chance of it hitting then random luck based events still occur, if they make it hit a set amount of times, buckler companions will be terrible as they will do 370-440 a hit, if they make it impossible to use first round, then Freeze boots (if ever coming back) will be outrageously OP, if freeze boots are out of the question simply two companions at full near each other have the possibility to result in one dead and the other at low health. The OP thing about Blast is not what it generally does it's what it CAN do.

This can be stop by emmet or exeter.

Oh my lord, there's a big fire here! Sigh. Well, I think I can bring in my 2 cents.

And I do mean my 2 cents because I once tried to play a Ranked PVP Battle Royal with my first mate Bones McGee, and had to stop because I went to a friend's birthday party. So I think I lost 80 crowns. Meh. Just Saying.

Sincerely:

Look at my message board name.

stormy quentin ver... on Jun 28, 2016 wrote:

Some suggestions for PVP:

1) Let the witchdoctor Charm power be allowed in PVP as suggested by others. Ratbeard, I understand that you raised concerns about it not working properly in Battle Royale, but that should not be too much of an issue and can be dealt with.

2) Create a penalty for declining matches in rank PVP. For example, a small loss of rank points. This should not be an issue for a person who has to occasionally decline a match, but on the other hand, it should discourage people from cheating in rank by trying to get matches with specific people in order to get free wins

1) The issue with Charm is its disparate effects based on which player goes first. It's easy to turn it back on, but I suspect you'll quickly ask for it to be turned off again. It's off now because of those complaints. (Fixing it has proven extremely thorny.)

2) Good idea.

And now... Let's all remember back to the last update, when certain people had a long list of changes that absolutely had to be made before witch doctors could possibly be competitive again, that none of the changes made to Black Fog/First Strike would have any effect to rein in Swashbucklers, and so on.

You should know by now that we (a) listen, (b) watch, (c) wait, (d) act. Every single update-- every single update-- we go through this process where everybody tries to figure out how the new powers fit into the meta. You *think* you understand how all the powers will fit, and I *think* I know how all the new powers will fit, but it is too early to tell. Because you all are sneaky and smart. You need some time to shatter your old strategies and put the pieces back together again. And we need to see you do that. Because frankly, if we're just theory-casting, and we have competing theories (as we usually do...)-- well, we default to the designer. I have been wrong in the past, I'll be wrong in the future-- and we'll make changes.

But we are not reactionary, and not going to play whack-a-mole with whatever the perceived "most broken thing ever!" is at any given time.

This is not a "preponderance of evidence" process but a "beyond a reasonable doubt" process. (Can you tell I've had jury duty twice in the last month?)

There's a few things mentioned I'd like to try to fix:

1) FMB should not be granting hidden damage bonus. I'll fix it if I can. And, although I haven't seen this mentioned yet, I'll be making it so that it can't be stacked with itself.

2) BoD. If I can find a way to lessen the "first turn" impact without nerfing the utility of this power as a timely response to summons, I'll do so.

I have decided on something. I call it the "Privateer Code of Honor(PCH for short)". Basically, it state that a privateer will not use BOD round 1 or 2(If they are really nice privies). They will not carry more than 2 FMB's, and they will only use BMD on units that are within they're healing range(if they can heal them, they can FMB them).
Now I know at LEAST one person is going to say "Well, silly musketeer, what if the privateers don't obey?(Again, that voice sounded very much like my own). Well, random internet person who likes this game as well, too bad. I however have a theory that in the next week or two, privies will stop, simply out of boredom. It you have watched 110 wiz pvp, you know it is just casting the same 4 spells over and over and over again. I believe this same philosophy will transfer over to privateers soon, and then KI will buff everyone, delete all coding of BOD, give musketeers 9000 health, whatever they decide to do. All I can say is, when my privy reaches max level, I will not be using BOD round 1.

Matthew Walker
Matthew Taylor

Fiery Zane Newell on Jun 28, 2016 wrote:

I seriously don't agree with you saying "Privateers are useless in PvP without Blast of Discord" Privateers were a staple class for all aspects of PvP before Discord and Spell power buffs got introduced into the game, they've also been considered the best class for awhile now. I agree with you when saying 3/5 of the current classes benefit from Scratch's new buffs, but these 3 classes benefit TOO much from his 3 turn 100% Spell power increase. Removing the 3 turn buff from PvP will still keep Scratch a strong companion, while introducing variety into Musketeer's, Witchdoctor's, and Privateer's strategies for ranked PvP and practice matches.

Fiery Zane Newell

I seriously don't agree with you wanting to remove Scratch 3 turn buff. Once you remove that, Scratch will go back to being the companion nobody will use or care about. Also once stacking buffs got removed, privateers became easy to defeat, espically if the enemy is using Nausica. Blast of discord gives them another chance their buffs can't.

Way to balance BoD:

Make it have the same range of purge magic. This prevents turn one use but still makes it deadly against people who aren't careful to spread their companions out. This also makes it more of a defensive response and less of a ridiculous offensive power.

Way to balance FB:

Take 50% of the base spell power of the caster. That number is the weapon power number added to the companion. That same number is also the spell power taken away from the caster. The main problem I have with FB is that privateers usually don't care about their weapon power. It's not that big of a drawback. Hitting their spell power makes FB more strategic where there are times you shouldn't use it. If a privateer tries to use a second FB before their debuff is removed, you take 50% of their CURRENT base spell power (so second boon is only half as effective as the first unless they wait to use it again).

Way to balance Old Scratch:

Make powers 75%, 50%, and 25%. I hesitate to change this too much as it really helps the witchdoctor class. I honestly think it is only overpowered with privateers and musketeer bombs. If it continues to be an issue after this suggestion is instituted then another nerf might be in store, but I like the diversity this has brought to companions (more witchdoctor and privateer companions).

Edit:
BoD could also have the 'mojo storm' effect, where if a player has equipped a staffy weapon with a range greater than three, BoD adopts that range. Only three range does seem harsh after thinking about it. Perhaps a default range of five or six?

stormy quentin ver... on Jun 28, 2016 wrote:

Some suggestions for PVP:

1) Let the witchdoctor Charm power be allowed in PVP as suggested by others. Ratbeard, I understand that you raised concerns about it not working properly in Battle Royale, but that should not be too much of an issue and can be dealt with.

2) Create a penalty for declining matches in rank PVP. For example, a small loss of rank points. This should not be an issue for a person who has to occasionally decline a match, but on the other hand, it should discourage people from cheating in rank by trying to get matches with specific people in order to get free wins

It is possible for a player with multiple accounts to climb rank without anybody seeing. Rank battles are not publically seen.

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

stormy quentin ver... on Jun 28, 2016 wrote:

Some suggestions for PVP:

1) Let the witchdoctor Charm power be allowed in PVP as suggested by others. Ratbeard, I understand that you raised concerns about it not working properly in Battle Royale, but that should not be too much of an issue and can be dealt with.

2) Create a penalty for declining matches in rank PVP. For example, a small loss of rank points. This should not be an issue for a person who has to occasionally decline a match, but on the other hand, it should discourage people from cheating in rank by trying to get matches with specific people in order to get free wins

Put back in charm and charming pet powers!

Virtuous Dante Ramsey

Disloyal1 on Jun 28, 2016 wrote:

Hello Zane. I've been doing PvP ever since the first day the Brawling Hall came out on every class except Swashbuckler and I've got to say I agree with some of this. To start off I don't think Blast of Discord should be PvE only because it's all Privateers have since they took away stacking buffs in PvP. Without Blast of Discord, Privateers are really useless in PvP. I also don't think Old Scratch buffs should be removed because he needed a serious update and almost every class except buccaneers and swashbucklers can benefit from him. If you ask me, PvP fell down ever since Nausica got introduced. Having a musket which could charge was a crazy idea and there is no way to run away or counter her really. Than when swashbucklers hidden was not able to be removed, it made them almost unstoppable, specifically with black fog. I agree that charming gaze was too much for PvP, but I think Witchdoctors charm should work again in PvP and their mojo echo should go back to being able to activate once they use a power such as mojo storm or soulreaver.

Since you posted some ideas for upgrades I will do the same.
1.Since we cannot stack them anymore, return all buffs back to their normal 10 rounds such as Privateers battle zeal and Buccaneers Levithan Call. Also buffs not being able to be stacked ruined 4v4 a lot. I hope they take that into consideration.
2. Make witchdoctors charm be able to be used in PvP again along with their mojo echo to activate once they use a power.
3. Have hidden be able to be removed by hits again
4. If it is possible, have another big board like the brawling hall used to be
5. Make Nausica damage less or give her some type of flaw
6. Make relentless 3 better

"-without Blast Of Discord, Privateers are really useless in PvP." What the? Wow that is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard. How do I put this, you know first season? Yea when everyone was saying Privateer was bad, and almost unviable in 1v1? I was didn't play my Privy much at that time, but I listened, I agreed. Then near the end of the season I started privy PvP, I used the standard summon spam privy, then later when I hit 300 I started my OWN strategy, it was practically perfect! Why was it perfect?
1. Privy is so insanely versatile they can bluff different sets
2. I had an extremely well balanced team that worked perfectly together
3. You where so versatile you could make many moves and have them still be good
4. It was designed to be as VERSATILE as possible
5. Most importantly it took ADVANTAGE of the standard gear at the time
This strategy simply revolved around several debuff charges, mixed attacking, soul shroud, and the underrated debuff based chains strategy. Why was this good?
1. People commonly had levy call back then which shroud pierced
2. Rarely did other privy have as many charges as I did thus letting me bluff more forts or assassins
3. It was versatile
Do you see that? Do you know why privateer will NEVER be below middle ground? Versatility if you ask me, unless your using combinations and abusing your versatility to its fullest you have more potential. If you ask me Privy never needed scratch in the first place, they did fine without him. So no, Privy AREN'T useless without Blast Of Discord, OR scratch, OR boon. Privy was completely fine, there only major flaws where simply,
1. Having bad team match ups is an extreme difficulty
2. Zeal wouldn't protect you from criticals
So NO I would never suggest Privy is lacking, if you ask me, first season I would rank them higher then middle ground.

Ratbeard on Jun 29, 2016 wrote:

1) The issue with Charm is its disparate effects based on which player goes first. It's easy to turn it back on, but I suspect you'll quickly ask for it to be turned off again. It's off now because of those complaints. (Fixing it has proven extremely thorny.)

2) Good idea.

And now... Let's all remember back to the last update, when certain people had a long list of changes that absolutely had to be made before witch doctors could possibly be competitive again, that none of the changes made to Black Fog/First Strike would have any effect to rein in Swashbucklers, and so on.

You should know by now that we (a) listen, (b) watch, (c) wait, (d) act. Every single update-- every single update-- we go through this process where everybody tries to figure out how the new powers fit into the meta. You *think* you understand how all the powers will fit, and I *think* I know how all the new powers will fit, but it is too early to tell. Because you all are sneaky and smart. You need some time to shatter your old strategies and put the pieces back together again. And we need to see you do that. Because frankly, if we're just theory-casting, and we have competing theories (as we usually do...)-- well, we default to the designer. I have been wrong in the past, I'll be wrong in the future-- and we'll make changes.

But we are not reactionary, and not going to play whack-a-mole with whatever the perceived "most broken thing ever!" is at any given time.

This is not a "preponderance of evidence" process but a "beyond a reasonable doubt" process. (Can you tell I've had jury duty twice in the last month?)

There's a few things mentioned I'd like to try to fix:

1) FMB should not be granting hidden damage bonus. I'll fix it if I can. And, although I haven't seen this mentioned yet, I'll be making it so that it can't be stacked with itself.

2) BoD. If I can find a way to lessen the "first turn" impact without nerfing the utility of this power as a timely response to summons, I'll do so.

Personally I would never use it as a response to summons as it, again is luck based, may be a wasted turn.
Secondly with summons lesser damage output using The Big Guns may be a better move of course depending on how much they attack each other.
One question,
Was Blast added intended for summons?
If so then that was unnecessary as summons can be dealt with aoe's, overwatch, first strike, and jobu's kiss giving you often over 800 health while still hurting them.

bluba4 on Jun 29, 2016 wrote:

Way to balance BoD:

Make it have the same range of purge magic. This prevents turn one use but still makes it deadly against people who aren't careful to spread their companions out. This also makes it more of a defensive response and less of a ridiculous offensive power.

Way to balance FB:

Take 50% of the base spell power of the caster. That number is the weapon power number added to the companion. That same number is also the spell power taken away from the caster. The main problem I have with FB is that privateers usually don't care about their weapon power. It's not that big of a drawback. Hitting their spell power makes FB more strategic where there are times you shouldn't use it. If a privateer tries to use a second FB before their debuff is removed, you take 50% of their CURRENT base spell power (so second boon is only half as effective as the first unless they wait to use it again).

Way to balance Old Scratch:

Make powers 75%, 50%, and 25%. I hesitate to change this too much as it really helps the witchdoctor class. I honestly think it is only overpowered with privateers and musketeer bombs. If it continues to be an issue after this suggestion is instituted then another nerf might be in store, but I like the diversity this has brought to companions (more witchdoctor and privateer companions).

Edit:
BoD could also have the 'mojo storm' effect, where if a player has equipped a staffy weapon with a range greater than three, BoD adopts that range. Only three range does seem harsh after thinking about it. Perhaps a default range of five or six?

I care a lot about my weapon power and if spell power is reduced I will use a charge next round to assist with companions doing 600-800 damage a hit who will be hitting approximately 6 times a round. This wouldn't balance it completely, though it would be interesting to see more melee privy.

I and a Privateer friend have been experimenting with BoD, I admit we've only did a few as time did not allow more experiments.
Results were disappointing - Blast of Discord not showing until the third or even the 5th round of the match.
And when it did finally show only two of my team were affected, although Fan did a get a critical on Contessa.
It still seems so random and luck based. And when FMB was used on a forted, Old Scratch boosted Nausica - it didn't do the kind of damage reported here.
I would like to do more experiments as I still don't know if BoD affects a fogged team or not.
For Science!